sydneyACE

I'm gonna be getting a dedicated track pad/rotor set for the front of my C5.
The track I run on has 3 decent length straights on it. On the back straight (longest) I usually hit 145-150ish before breaking. The corner at the end of the straight is slow and sharp, followed by another decent straight (110ish), then another slow/sharp corner. My brakes were getting very hot (too hot) after a few laps.

I'm looking at the Carbotech XP10's, but was thinking if there were something a little cheaper that would work just as well... I found the XP10's for $195.00 plus shipping, but I don't know if I wann spend that much.
I realize that after going to these pads, the rotors will probably be the weakest link (cracking). I'm running Nappa rotors, I heard these work just fine for track duty. I also plan on getting some spindle ducts.

Will running my "street" pads (ceramics) on the rear cause me any major issues? Obviously going to a race pad on the rear would be better, but I can't afford it.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!

sothpaw2

I tried running stock C5Z pads on the rear with Wil H's front for 1 day at Summit. I didn't like it--the pedal got long on me. This didn't happen the previous day with HP+ front and C5Z rear or any of the previous days with Wil-H all corners.

I think you are stuck. You need a high temp. pad for the rear and a good pad up front also. You could try the PFC-Z rear with the other track pad that PFC has on sale here on the front (cost is $115+ shipping for the fronts).

63Corvette

"Will running my "street" pads (ceramics) on the rear cause me any major issues? Obviously going to a race pad on the rear would be better, but I can't afford it.
Any input would be appreciated."

Please, do NOT run the ceramic pads on either end. You will regret it. They simply are not suitable for track work. Their heat range is far below that which your brakes will see on track.

AU N EGL

Ceramic pads have their place in the automotive market, just not on sports cars at any time.

On a race track, STREET ceramic brake pads will melt and not stop your car. Very dangerous.

Carbotech IIRC are a race ceramic compound brake pad. Much differnt

jmorgan07z06

How many times a year do you plan to track your car? How do you feel about a little bit of noise?

The reason I ask is because when I first started to get alot faster I was running through pads and rotors like crazy and if you are braking from 150mph to 50 mph to enter the hairpins you are burning them up as well. I would change my pads and rotors from street set to track set and back to street set every month or so. This became to be quite a bit of work that I had no time for along with changing my seat out and track tires. I finally upgraded the front brakes to stoptechs (which for me was necessary) and switched to Colbalt XR2 race pads. The pads are expensive but I can tell you that they will last 2 to 3 times longer than Hawk HPS pads. I use the Colbalts for street and track even though they are marketed as a track only pad. They do make a little noise but It does not bother me much. The initial bite is excellent and they work great cold or hot. Your brake ducts will help! I drive my car daily and track it 8 times a year. Now I only have to change my front pads 3 times a year and rears 2 times a year.

Anyway, in my opinion what it boils down to is great pads will last longer and cost less to run per year.

longdaddy

for a cheap rear solution i would recommend OEM C5Z pads. for the fronts, anything rated as full race pad will work. your driving style will have far more effect on the pad wear and longevity. I currently run wilwood H with wilwood calipers, but tried XP8, XP10, Hawk Blue, Hawk HP+, PFC 01, and OEM Z06 pads with OEM calipers. all worked in a similar way as far as wear goes, aside from HP+ and OEMs, those got baked fast. All got worn unevenly and showed signs of heat damage when down to about 30%

i ran ceramics on the rear once (only pads i could find in time). it was ok and they got me through the day but they were junk after that.


from what I have observed, long pedal is caused by pad wear and the way stock calipers work, it has little to do with the compound. you can shim worn pads and/or flip them left/right/inside/out in the middle of the day - that will prevent the onset of the long pedal.

sydneyACE

Wow! Thanks for all the quick responses.

To answer a couple of q's: I track the car 2-3 times a year. I'm a mechanic so swapping the brakes is no problem. I don't really want/need to run a track pad on the street. My plan was just to run one set of pads/rotors on the street, then swap them out with a set of dedicated track pads/rotors. I was hoping to get away with leaving the rears alone since they seemed to be doing alright on my previous track days. Plus I figured with the increased stoping power of the track pads on the front maybe the rears wouldn't be working quite as hard.

Could you guys point me in the right direction as far as where to get the best price on some racing pads for the front-end.
Which of these are the best pad for the money?
Carbotechs XP10 or 12 maybe
Colbalt XR2
Willwood H's
PFC?
any others that fit the bill?
Thanks again

longdaddy

if you have pads on the back with significantly lower torque, under very hard braking (think slowing down from 150 mph into a 2nd gear corner), you can significantly shift the balance of the car, i.e. you may end up with "dancing" back end - unnerving but usually not too dangerous.

in my very subjective opinion, PFC 01 compounds provided the best balance between cold/hot bite, longevity and price for the use in the stock front calipers.

as far as heat issues you are seeing, those are the result of insufficient cooling vs the rotor size that C5 provides, the only real fix is bigger rotor and wheel, everything else is pretty much a band-aid.

if your brake rotors are lasting more than 2-3 track days, you are doing just fine on the heat so far, it will get worse

sothpaw2

I think it is the PFC 99's that you can get here from a forum vendor for $115+shipping for the fronts. They are older technology then the PFC 01's which replaced them--PFC does not make 99's anymore.

I think a Wil H is a little cheaper than carbotech maybe $25-50 less.

sothpaw2

[QUOTE=

from what I have observed, long pedal is caused by pad wear and the way stock calipers work, it has little to do with the compound. you can shim worn pads and/or flip them left/right/inside/out in the middle of the day - that will prevent the onset of the long pedal.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's it but I guess I need to get some more data. The rear C5Z pads were new at start of a 2-day weekend and due to rain and ignition issues, saw really 1 day's worth. They didn't show any signs of taper when I reviewed them later. They did look a little over heated.
Now the front H's are not new anymore but had a lot more meat on them then the HP+ and the pedal was not long at all with the HP+ in front the first day.

As said--I'll try some more--and keep after lubing the guide pins. But I don't believe in using OEM pads at all anymore past 1 rookie event. I think they are overheating. I never had any long pedal once I went to Wil all around. I think anything that can take the heat (heat range being vip as opposed to friction) will work.

96CollectorSport

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Hawk DTC-70, great pad.
I perfer the DTC-70 over the Wilwood H and the PFC-01. I haven't tried the Carbotech XP10.
The DTC-70 will be easier on rotors than the Wilwood H, but the H lasts longer. The DTC-70 feels like it performs better too. I'd say they are similar to the PFC-01 but they are less expensive.

L98Terror

You can find used pads no and again, I always used to run used Hawks from Phoenix. Best bang for the buck for sure.

I recommend Hawks but they are pricey but woork well, look into the HT 10 for a little more cost effective pad, but the DTC 70 is my pad of choice

wtknght1

Dude, you and everybody else really need to check out Carbotech's stuff. http://www.ctbrakes.com/

I've been winning national races on their compounds for years and I doubt you'll find anything as good for the price. Contact either Chris or Danny and tell 'em I said hi. It is a phenominal product - non corrosive too! ...and I'm stopping a 3500lb car from 160 mph! I've even beaten up on some STO guys running other pads.

trumper Z06

I've used both Wilwood "H" and "J" pads on my C5 Z06's.

The wear and stopping power was great... although the
Wilwoods were a little hard on NAPA replacement rotors.

With the C6 Z06 I've had good results using
Carbotech XP 12's front/XP 10's rear. The rear pads outlast the fronts
by at least ~ 3:1, and the Carbotech's are a little easier on rotors.

My C6 Z06 is equiped with Coleman two piece rotors front (lasting ~ 6 track days),
and stock rear rotors that I've replaced once in ~ 32000 miles.

I've used both the one piece Carbotech pads and the three piece paddets with simular track life.

Hope this helps.

0Vector Vette

There are and always will be many opinions on this subject. The reason is thay every combination works to some degree, it's just a matter of how hard you are pushing down on the pedal. You can put a lower grade race pad on front and leave your ceramics on the back, you just have to back off earlier. If you are pushing the car and yourself hard though, those ceramics will melt at higher temps. When they do, your car can easily spin on you and cause a wreck, which to me is pretty dangerous. If you are pushing hard with a real race pad on the front, then you need a real race pad on the rear to keep your car balanced. If you decide to go that route, then Cobalt Friction XR2 can't be beat. They are not the cheapest pad you can purchase, but will easilly outlast any comperable race pad, making them the most cost effective pad you can get. They are also far less abusive on your rotors then any other comperable race pad, thus causing rotor costs to be less as well, no matter what type of rotors you are useing.

If you are interested in Cobalt Friction brake pads or our quality American made 2 piece rotors, give us a call.

Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631

sydneyACE

Today I finally did the brakes (for the street) on my car. I got a new set of NAPA rotors and some Powerstop Evolution ceramic pads. These are the best deal I've been able to find yet for ceramic street pads. They were $36 for the front and $26 for the rear.

I thought my front rotors were fried, but slapped them on the lathe just for the hell of it. I got them all cleaned up and then measured them to find they were still above specs. So now I can just use the new NAPA rotors for the track. I re-painted my calipers and hats, flushed the whole system, and filled it up with some DOT4 so I'll be ready to hit the track this spring.

I'm leaning towards the PFC 99's for the fronts. I just can't afford $150+ for pads. I've heard the 99's will work really well for the price. I was also considering the Wilwood H's, but can't find a price on them. How much do those run?
Edit: Nevermind, looks like the H's run about $200 too.

After I pulled the pads on the rear of the car, I realized that they were taking more abuse than I originally thought. So I will probably have to get a set of track pads for the rears as well.
What are some cheap rear pads I could run that would balance fairly well with those PFC 99's up front?
Would the Powerstop Z26 Semimetallics be up to the task? At $46 the price is right. Supposedly they are comparable to the stock Z06 pads. Or maybe the Hawk HPS's? (Almost twice the price, but if the Z26's wont cut it.)
Thanks again for all the great info guys!

sothpaw2

I'm in the same boat as you--trying to do this at minimal cost. You are running very high speeds as stated in the first post. IMHO you have to run a track pad on the rear.

I'm looking at the Wilwood E for this purpose. I think I can get a set for around $100. The temp. is rated at well over 1000F. Otherwise I would go Carbo XP8 for the rear. PFC will mention their PFC-Z pad but I after searches here I think it's comparable to a Hawk HP+. I don't think it will take the heat and so won't last in the rear. I'm running comp. mode so my rear pads do see some use.

brkntrxn

A couple of us that run together tried PFC99s last Fall after getting a deal on several sets. I took them off after the weekend and will never use them again except as a backup, emergency set -- they are now relegated to the bottom of my spares box. They work good for a set of track pads, but not as good as the Carbotech (XP8/XP10/XP12s) I have used over the past couple of years. Another side effect of the PFC99s is the horrible amout of corrosive dust they put on the paint and wheels. Carbotechs are much easier to cleanup after following a weekend at the track.

M .02. YMMV


-Kevin

1BDRSK

I used Carbo's last year, they worked very well.

waddisme

I did the exact same thing. I had been doing 12/10 combo but thought I would try the 99s because they were a pretty good deal. They are not quite as good as the 12s as they tend to fade before the 30 min is up, but when I ran the 99s during the rain last year at VIR, it took forever to get the caked on dust off my wheels. Very frustrating. Don't know if there are any left, but for the price, the 99s are a good deal if you don't want to spend the money, but then again, it is your car, your track day. Why would you want to have to deal with braking issues?