NASA ST2/TTS rear wing rules
03-08-2010, 10:48 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
NASA ST2/TTS rear wing rules
Need some help here. Danny Popp, Ken Smith and any other comments appreciated.
Instead of mounting the APR wing on the trunk lid, I want to mount it straight to the bumper. I got clearification the the wing itself must not be higher than 8 inches above the roof line, and no wider than the rear body work width. I want the deck lid to clear the wing when raising it up.
My question is: is there any rule how far back a wing can be in NASA Super Touring rules.
Thanks!
D.J. Covert
Instead of mounting the APR wing on the trunk lid, I want to mount it straight to the bumper. I got clearification the the wing itself must not be higher than 8 inches above the roof line, and no wider than the rear body work width. I want the deck lid to clear the wing when raising it up.
My question is: is there any rule how far back a wing can be in NASA Super Touring rules.
Thanks!
D.J. Covert
03-09-2010, 08:58 AM
#3
Race Director
Member Since: May 1999
Location: Plymouth MI Formerly Milford, MA MI
Posts: 14,267
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
W. Detroit Events Coordinator
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Cruise-In VII Autocross Champ
FYI Mine does not extend above the roof line nor doe it extend backwards, not for any reason other then that's how it came.
Last edited by L98Terror; 03-09-2010 at 09:01 AM.
03-09-2010, 09:13 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
For NASA TTU you can have it wider than the body can't you? I thought the only rule was no higher than 8" above the roofline but anything else goes (as far back or wide...just not above 8")? Correct?
03-09-2010, 10:25 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: If you don't weigh in you don't wrestle Road America
Posts: 3,031
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
54 Posts
This is a direct cut and paste from the 2010 TT rules
I remember reading in the past that there were no movable aerodynamic devices (sucker fans, movable wings, etc.) but it looks like they wrote that out of the rules. I would imagine if you showed up with a sucker car that they would probably ban you sooner or later, again just a guess.
But as far as location and width I think you can do whatever you want.
2) Aerodynamic modifications are unrestricted, except that a rear wing (or rear spoiler
for wagon-style bodies), may not exceed a height of eight (8) inches above the
roofline (or OEM windshield height for convertibles).
for wagon-style bodies), may not exceed a height of eight (8) inches above the
roofline (or OEM windshield height for convertibles).
But as far as location and width I think you can do whatever you want.
03-09-2010, 11:00 AM
#6
Drifting
wing
D.J.,
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
03-09-2010, 11:13 AM
#8
Race Director
Higher=cleaner air, further back= more leverage. Both seem advantagios until you realize that too much will increase drag a lot and cause severe understeer
an aerfoil will create downforce with even a zero angle of attack, so it really doesn't take much to overpower the front grip
if you mount it to just clear your decklid you should be in good shape
an aerfoil will create downforce with even a zero angle of attack, so it really doesn't take much to overpower the front grip
if you mount it to just clear your decklid you should be in good shape
03-09-2010, 12:50 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
D.J.,
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
I'm using a APR wing that has the specs of the down force of a GT 500, but the drag of the GT 300 up to about 135 mph. I've been testing it on my Le Mans street car on the track at PIR this weekend. I tried to balance it with a vented CF hood I got from Coffey and it worked well at 3 degrees. The 9" stands connected to an extra trunk lid made the bottom of the wing just above the roofline and the top about 4 inches above it.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
BTW, Your old car is kicking butt down here! Gary Felton is the only one to stay with it. Tage hasn't been running of late.
Darrell J. Covert
covertdj@aol.com
Realty Executives Z 06 #96 TTS
Last edited by 96solo; 03-09-2010 at 12:53 PM.
03-09-2010, 12:52 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: 2” off your rear bumper
Posts: 2,396
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-09-2010, 12:57 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: 2” off your rear bumper
Posts: 2,396
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i miss that thing.
but like others have said... move it as far back and as high as allowed by law... as long as that doesnt give you TOO MUCH down force.
03-09-2010, 01:06 PM
#13
Pro
Member Since: Jun 2003
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really think it comes down to how high you have the wing (and rearward) vs the drag you get from the wing. Danny and I have been working with a local aero guy and he has us on the right track.
The trick aero stuff noone will probably even notice. Think of the wing as a baseline and what itrems can you do you make that baseline more efficient.
The trick aero stuff noone will probably even notice. Think of the wing as a baseline and what itrems can you do you make that baseline more efficient.
03-09-2010, 01:27 PM
#14
Race Director
Member Since: Jun 2001
Location: Huntsville AL
Posts: 10,862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03
Higher=cleaner air, further back= more leverage. Both seem advantagios until you realize that too much will increase drag a lot and cause severe understeer
an aerfoil will create downforce with even a zero angle of attack, so it really doesn't take much to overpower the front grip
if you mount it to just clear your decklid you should be in good shape
an aerfoil will create downforce with even a zero angle of attack, so it really doesn't take much to overpower the front grip
if you mount it to just clear your decklid you should be in good shape
03-09-2010, 01:28 PM
#15
Safety Car
03-09-2010, 02:25 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Yes James and I both have the Hardbar designed aerofoil.....James' is a Hardbar part bought from RyanO when Griggs was buying the molds from Gary. My wing was the first one that Griggs produced.....
I payed dearly for mine and waited a long, long time....
03-09-2010, 07:04 PM
#17
Instructor
wing
D.J.,
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
Call K.C. at APR. You will find that the best aerodynamic advantage on a 3D wing (APR) is not above roofline. He has some data on this.
You can look at az55's new ST2 car (my old one) and look at recommended stanchion height for APR wing. I mounted directly to frame and slightly behind rear fascia. P.M. me with your e-mail and I can send you some photos.
Both Danny's and Aaron's car uses a 2D style wing which aerodynamically does not work the same as the APR wing.
J.R.
J.R. did a great job and I am really happy I bought his car.
I have all the data from APR and you are welcome to check out the car on the 20th at Firebird.
Cheers,
CV
03-09-2010, 08:48 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Seem like many had an acute eye and noticed my wing was different than all of the APR wings there. Sure helped, but my times are in the bucket with 13 months not being on track.
03-09-2010, 09:40 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter