3/4" Toe-in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-26-2010, 10:39 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
3/4" Toe-in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My rear tires last 3 times as long as my fronts. Street tires and track tires the same. The car tracks straight up to 140+ and seems to handle fine.
I borrowed a Longacre toe plate set and just measured 3/4" difference from front to rear! I did the alignment myself about 4 years ago or maybe more. Used a camber gauge to get about 2 degrees negative and then used fishing lines on jack stands to set toe at near zero. The rear alignment is whatever Bolling Green put on the car in 2002.
Is it possible to have 3/4" toe in and not have really poor turn in etc? I keep checking the plates, tire pressure tape measures and it seems to be the number.
I borrowed a Longacre toe plate set and just measured 3/4" difference from front to rear! I did the alignment myself about 4 years ago or maybe more. Used a camber gauge to get about 2 degrees negative and then used fishing lines on jack stands to set toe at near zero. The rear alignment is whatever Bolling Green put on the car in 2002.
Is it possible to have 3/4" toe in and not have really poor turn in etc? I keep checking the plates, tire pressure tape measures and it seems to be the number.
08-26-2010, 10:49 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
The measuring tapes are 21 3/8" on center, so 3/8" per side trig's out to be a 1 degree angle.
I still can't believe that I set this wrong and have been driving on it this way for years.
Last edited by UstaB-GS549; 08-26-2010 at 11:09 PM.
08-27-2010, 07:37 AM
#6
Team Owner
08-27-2010, 08:52 AM
#7
Race Director
he says the fronts wear out much quicker, so I bet he's right. Try and get them close to zero, and see what happens. Having that much toe IN in the front certainly is hurting you, as the inside tires are fighting you in every corner, plus you are burning them up going straight!
08-27-2010, 10:53 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
On your post it was hard to decifer if your doing the front or rear ...My bad the front
1/16-1/8 toe out in the front
3/4 toe in is nuts . I mean really fn nuts .
0 -1/16 TOE IN the rear .
Are you from Darien < Like north of Woodstock Darien ?? Same town ?
Did you roll the car back / forth after the adustment .
Thrust angle ??
Spend the 80- bucks and get -it aligned
1/16-1/8 toe out in the front
3/4 toe in is nuts . I mean really fn nuts .
0 -1/16 TOE IN the rear .
Are you from Darien < Like north of Woodstock Darien ?? Same town ?
Did you roll the car back / forth after the adustment .
Thrust angle ??
Spend the 80- bucks and get -it aligned
08-27-2010, 11:11 AM
#9
Drifting
Naw, don't spend the $80. Learn to do it yourself. And I thought he was talking rear tires as well. Knowing that its the front tires, then the rear tire life makes a lot more sense.
I've a friend who accidently had 3/4" on the front, said it didn't behave as expected, it was touchy and weird, so he came in to check it.
I've a friend who accidently had 3/4" on the front, said it didn't behave as expected, it was touchy and weird, so he came in to check it.
08-27-2010, 12:47 PM
#10
It really is simple to do yourself and then you can check it whenever you want. When YOU do your own alignment, then you get whatever settings you want and you know they are accurate. The alignment shop printout might show the settings you asked for, but is their machine properly calibrated?
08-27-2010, 01:03 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
All: its the front tires on 02 Z06
Rob31: Darien, IL not Darien, WI. 25 miles straight west of Chicago.
John: I can see 2 degrees negative camber, but for some reason the body shape masks the 1 degree toe in angle.
I'm going to try to set toe to Zero to maybe 1/16" toe out. I'm also going to check my fishing line system against the borrowed toe plates.
4 wood "jack stands" with saddle at centerline of wheel. 2 PVC pipes with holes match drilled thru the ends. Pipes are a bit longer than body width. Pipes on jack stands and fishing line thru holes. Jack stands about 5 feet past both ends of the car. Fiddle with pipes to get strings parallel with car centerline. Measure from strings to rim at front and rear to get toe.
Maybe I did something stupid like making tie rod adjustments and not rechecking result.
My race tires usually show cords evenly across tread. If the outside had been wearing much faster than the inside, I might have suspected massive toe-in.
From past experience, 3/8" toe out coupled with 2 degrees negative camber gives great turn in, but also affects high speed stability as well as wearing out the inside of the tire first.
I bet I get nominated for Dumbass of the Year for this one.
Rob31: Darien, IL not Darien, WI. 25 miles straight west of Chicago.
John: I can see 2 degrees negative camber, but for some reason the body shape masks the 1 degree toe in angle.
I'm going to try to set toe to Zero to maybe 1/16" toe out. I'm also going to check my fishing line system against the borrowed toe plates.
4 wood "jack stands" with saddle at centerline of wheel. 2 PVC pipes with holes match drilled thru the ends. Pipes are a bit longer than body width. Pipes on jack stands and fishing line thru holes. Jack stands about 5 feet past both ends of the car. Fiddle with pipes to get strings parallel with car centerline. Measure from strings to rim at front and rear to get toe.
Maybe I did something stupid like making tie rod adjustments and not rechecking result.
My race tires usually show cords evenly across tread. If the outside had been wearing much faster than the inside, I might have suspected massive toe-in.
From past experience, 3/8" toe out coupled with 2 degrees negative camber gives great turn in, but also affects high speed stability as well as wearing out the inside of the tire first.
I bet I get nominated for Dumbass of the Year for this one.
08-27-2010, 01:59 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
I set my toe with a tram guage , Body repair tech by trade .
Camber /Caster I use an Intercomp guage
Lately I have been setting the C4 on wheel dollies so I dont have to roll the thing back & forth .
Thrust angle ,I use a lazer level facing two rulers set on the front wheels .
Id lose the wood jack stands ,probably binding in there
I was thinking if someone was having trouble measuring toe then the 80 bucks would be a deal .
Camber /Caster I use an Intercomp guage
Lately I have been setting the C4 on wheel dollies so I dont have to roll the thing back & forth .
Thrust angle ,I use a lazer level facing two rulers set on the front wheels .
Id lose the wood jack stands ,probably binding in there
I was thinking if someone was having trouble measuring toe then the 80 bucks would be a deal .
08-29-2010, 09:04 PM
#15
Drifting
Thread Starter
I reset the toe to 1/8" total toe out in front. It was a lot easier than I expected. I drove up on my 4.5" tall mini ramps and that was enough to reach the tie rods and make adjustments.
I used David Farmer's rule: 3 flats = 1/16", turned the ends out 9 flats and nailed it at zero toe the first try. I gave it another flat for a little toe out.
Driving to Autobahn this morning did not feel any different with my revised alignment other that it seems to track a little to the right on flat highway. I may have to make a tiny correction.
On track today, the car felt fine. I was hoping for a huge difference, but it didn't happen. Last year my best time on the South course was a 1:35 & today I was 1:38. Oh well.
I used David Farmer's rule: 3 flats = 1/16", turned the ends out 9 flats and nailed it at zero toe the first try. I gave it another flat for a little toe out.
Driving to Autobahn this morning did not feel any different with my revised alignment other that it seems to track a little to the right on flat highway. I may have to make a tiny correction.
On track today, the car felt fine. I was hoping for a huge difference, but it didn't happen. Last year my best time on the South course was a 1:35 & today I was 1:38. Oh well.
08-30-2010, 01:50 PM
#16
Former Vendor
Are you setting your toe with the tires on the ground? If so, roll the car back about 10 feet, then roll it back where you had it and check your toe again. I think you will find you have a differant number. Suspension changes should be made on turn plates, not the ground. Our shop is in Plainfield, IL, give us a call if you would like some help with your setup.
Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631
Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631
08-30-2010, 02:46 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
I reset the toe to 1/8" total toe out in front. It was a lot easier than I expected. I drove up on my 4.5" tall mini ramps and that was enough to reach the tie rods and make adjustments.
I used David Farmer's rule: 3 flats = 1/16", turned the ends out 9 flats and nailed it at zero toe the first try. I gave it another flat for a little toe out.
Driving to Autobahn this morning did not feel any different with my revised alignment other that it seems to track a little to the right on flat highway. I may have to make a tiny correction.
On track today, the car felt fine. I was hoping for a huge difference, but it didn't happen. Last year my best time on the South course was a 1:35 & today I was 1:38. Oh well.
I used David Farmer's rule: 3 flats = 1/16", turned the ends out 9 flats and nailed it at zero toe the first try. I gave it another flat for a little toe out.
Driving to Autobahn this morning did not feel any different with my revised alignment other that it seems to track a little to the right on flat highway. I may have to make a tiny correction.
On track today, the car felt fine. I was hoping for a huge difference, but it didn't happen. Last year my best time on the South course was a 1:35 & today I was 1:38. Oh well.
08-31-2010, 07:43 AM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
Robert:
Yes, I did roll car after adjusting. Maybe not 10 feet, but more like 3-4. I think I will borrow toe plates and check it again. The car felt good at Autobahn yesterday, but then it always does.
Rob 31:
I did both sides. 3/4" divided by two (front to back on toe plate) and divided by two again for both sides is how I got 3/16" adjustment, which is about 9 flats or 1.5 revolutions of tie rod.
Yes, I did roll car after adjusting. Maybe not 10 feet, but more like 3-4. I think I will borrow toe plates and check it again. The car felt good at Autobahn yesterday, but then it always does.
Rob 31:
I did both sides. 3/4" divided by two (front to back on toe plate) and divided by two again for both sides is how I got 3/16" adjustment, which is about 9 flats or 1.5 revolutions of tie rod.
08-31-2010, 12:39 PM
#19
Safety Car
Front and rear on the same height and the car was as close to completely level as possible? I find after any changes the car is best rolled a fair distance, or at least jump up and down on the door sill to try to get it to settle. After all my efforts I watched a local shop do it on grease-plates and you could really see just how far things slide as you mess with the alignment.
08-31-2010, 08:37 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
Front and rear on the same height and the car was as close to completely level as possible? I find after any changes the car is best rolled a fair distance, or at least jump up and down on the door sill to try to get it to settle. After all my efforts I watched a local shop do it on grease-plates and you could really see just how far things slide as you mess with the alignment.