Plugged / Patched Tire on a road track?
09-09-2010, 08:23 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Plugged / Patched Tire on a road track?
Is there any type of plug or patch (or both on the same nail hole) that should be trusted in a tire used on a road track? Assuming that the hole is in the middle part of the tread (not even close to the side wall).
09-09-2010, 10:51 AM
#3
Team Owner
Michelin says you can make one patch in street tire and still maintain speed rating. It would not bother me. In a slick it my be a different story as the construction is different.
09-09-2010, 11:10 AM
#4
Pro
Member Since: Mar 2010
Location: Lewisville TX
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I had my Firestone Wide Oval RFTs once on each side and they held true after a full weekend of track. Top speed of only 110 or so at the track but they held up just fine. I had Discount Tire do both of them.
09-09-2010, 11:32 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Get a NAPA Balkamp Vulcanizing Plug Kit # 710-1028. Most likely they will have to order it for you. It consist of a gun that pushes a plug into the tire. The plug has a rounded head so when you pull the gun out the plug is captured for ever. I used this a lot when I was racing. Goodyear would take the race tires back to check wear and such and never said a word about them because they vilcanized (melted) into the tire. We were getting tire temperatures in the 210 to 235 degree range. I set track records at Charlotte, Rockingham, etc. with them and raced with them.
Then, one day Larry Robbinson of Llauderdale Auto Marine (Goodyear dealer) saw a crew guy pluging a tire and he went ballistic!
He talked about Goodyear's liability if the tire blew, etc. Bottom line was in the future we had to hide our tire pluging. We did it because once you had a set of tires scrubbed in and the roll out set you were screwed if one of them then developed a puncture or leak. Goodyear was sponsoring us so getting tires was no big deal but not having the correct roll out was a big deal.
I would not be concerned with the above but the choice is up to you.
Jim
Then, one day Larry Robbinson of Llauderdale Auto Marine (Goodyear dealer) saw a crew guy pluging a tire and he went ballistic!
He talked about Goodyear's liability if the tire blew, etc. Bottom line was in the future we had to hide our tire pluging. We did it because once you had a set of tires scrubbed in and the roll out set you were screwed if one of them then developed a puncture or leak. Goodyear was sponsoring us so getting tires was no big deal but not having the correct roll out was a big deal.I would not be concerned with the above but the choice is up to you.
Jim
09-09-2010, 11:37 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Get a NAPA Balkamp Vulcanizing Plug Kit # 710-1028. Most likely they will have to order it for you. It consist of a gun that pushes a plug into the tire. The plug has a rounded head so when you pull the gun out the plug is captured for ever. I used this a lot when I was racing. Goodyear would take the race tires back to check wear and such and never said a word about them because they vilcanized (melted) into the tire. We were getting tire temperatures in the 210 to 235 degree range. I set track records at Charlotte, Rockingham, etc. with them and raced with them.
Then, one day Larry Robbinson of Llauderdale Auto Marine (Goodyear dealer) saw a crew guy pluging a tire and he went ballistic! He talked about Goodyear's liability if the tire blew, etc. Bottom line was in the future we had to hide our tire pluging. We did it because once you had a set of tires scrubbed in and the roll out set you were screwed if one of them then developed a puncture or leak. Goodyear was sponsoring us so getting tires was no big deal but not having the correct roll out was a big deal.
I would not be concerned with the above but the choice is up to you.
Jim
Then, one day Larry Robbinson of Llauderdale Auto Marine (Goodyear dealer) saw a crew guy pluging a tire and he went ballistic!
He talked about Goodyear's liability if the tire blew, etc. Bottom line was in the future we had to hide our tire pluging. We did it because once you had a set of tires scrubbed in and the roll out set you were screwed if one of them then developed a puncture or leak. Goodyear was sponsoring us so getting tires was no big deal but not having the correct roll out was a big deal.I would not be concerned with the above but the choice is up to you.
Jim
09-09-2010, 12:37 PM
#8
Drifting
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Location: Dayton, OH
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IMHO The problem with patching/plugging a tire for high speed events has nothing to do with whether it will hold air or not.
When a nail or whatever penetrates the carcass of the tire it more than likely has damaged or broken some of the cording
When the tire is under stress in a corner etc. the rest of the cording could break or slip and the results may not be pretty
NOT Worth It
When a nail or whatever penetrates the carcass of the tire it more than likely has damaged or broken some of the cording
When the tire is under stress in a corner etc. the rest of the cording could break or slip and the results may not be pretty
NOT Worth It
09-09-2010, 01:23 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Sorry Everett, I am showing my age. About 800 years ago when I started racing we figured the tire diameter by marking it and then rolling it until the tire came around to the same mark on the tire. We then measured the distance each tire rolled with one full turn (ie. Roll Out!). Pressure had to be exact as to how you were going to start the tire in the race. This is another way of setting stagger. At a track like Charlotte you want the right front tire to have more roll out (diameter) than the left front tire because it is a left turn track in the high speed part. The same is true for the rear tires. We had a book (I still have some of them) for every track and we knew the exact roll out we wanted and what worked best the last time. Temperature, humidity, etc. all play a part but if you want to win sometimes roll out is the only difference. Sometimes we had to adjust a bunch and sometimes the car was fast right out of the trailer. We always set the car up for the track at the shop based on our last experience at the particular track and this gave us more time to fiddle if needed. We still had to punch the tires but the right roll out can help the car turn a bunch.
I love these guys that get all these adjustable shocks, sway bars, etc. and don't have a clue about how to really set a car up. The input has to come from the driver. What I liked in a road race car is understeer so I can throttle oversteer the car. Others like the car loose. I like a lose car on a oval like Charlotte but tight on a road race course but some of my fastest laps have come when the car was lose.
AAhhh, the good old days. That is all behind me now. I am getting slower every year.
Have you planned work for Track Attack next year? You got to get your priorities straight!
Jim
I love these guys that get all these adjustable shocks, sway bars, etc. and don't have a clue about how to really set a car up. The input has to come from the driver. What I liked in a road race car is understeer so I can throttle oversteer the car. Others like the car loose. I like a lose car on a oval like Charlotte but tight on a road race course but some of my fastest laps have come when the car was lose.
AAhhh, the good old days. That is all behind me now. I am getting slower every year.
Have you planned work for Track Attack next year? You got to get your priorities straight!
Jim
09-09-2010, 01:29 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Sorry Everett, I am showing my age. About 800 years ago when I started racing we figured the tire diameter by marking it and then rolling it until the tire came around to the same mark on the tire. We then measured the distance each tire rolled with one full turn (ie. Roll Out!). Pressure had to be exact as to how you were going to start the tire in the race. This is another way of setting stagger. At a track like Charlotte you want the right front tire to have more roll out (diameter) than the left front tire because it is a left turn track in the high speed part. The same is true for the rear tires. We had a book (I still have some of them) for every track and we knew the exact roll out we wanted and what worked best the last time. Temperature, humidity, etc. all play a part but if you want to win sometimes roll out is the only difference. Sometimes we had to adjust a bunch and sometimes the car was fast right out of the trailer. We always set the car up for the track at the shop based on our last experience at the particular track and this gave us more time to fiddle if needed. We still had to punch the tires but the right roll out can help the car turn a bunch.
I love these guys that get all these adjustable shocks, sway bars, etc. and don't have a clue about how to really set a car up. The input has to come from the driver. What I liked in a road race car is understeer so I can throttle oversteer the car. Others like the car loose. I like a lose car on a oval like Charlotte but tight on a road race course but some of my fastest laps have come when the car was lose.
AAhhh, the good old days. That is all behind me now. I am getting slower every year.
Have you planned work for Track Attack next year? You got to get your priorities straight!
Jim
I love these guys that get all these adjustable shocks, sway bars, etc. and don't have a clue about how to really set a car up. The input has to come from the driver. What I liked in a road race car is understeer so I can throttle oversteer the car. Others like the car loose. I like a lose car on a oval like Charlotte but tight on a road race course but some of my fastest laps have come when the car was lose.
AAhhh, the good old days. That is all behind me now. I am getting slower every year.
Have you planned work for Track Attack next year? You got to get your priorities straight!
Jim
Sorry for hijacking the thread guys.
09-09-2010, 02:29 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Jim
09-09-2010, 05:27 PM
#14
Racings' expensive, you have to deal with it. Somebody right next to you in the corner doesn't you to have a blowout either. It's professional courtesy, and common sense.
09-09-2010, 09:26 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Lauderdale Auto Marine Service was the Goodyear race tire distributor East of the Miss.[ Daytona, Sebring, Road Atlanta, etc. Carroll Shelby West of the Miss] And you bet they would have a heart attack with a patched race tire !! We always got everything from them too, including advice....IMSA, SCCA, FIA, mainly with Camaro's. A problem at 190MPH wasn't worth 100 bucks for a tire.
Racings' expensive, you have to deal with it. Somebody right next to you in the corner doesn't you to have a blowout either. It's professional courtesy, and common sense.
Racings' expensive, you have to deal with it. Somebody right next to you in the corner doesn't you to have a blowout either. It's professional courtesy, and common sense.
How about guys running shot as ballast and filling your radiator full of holes at 190 MPH? Everything happened back then to win!
Jim
09-09-2010, 09:32 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
09-10-2010, 08:18 AM
#19
Race Director
I've used pull through patches/plugs on street tires that were tracked. Some race compound tires have nylon cords, not sure I'd trust one in that type of tire. 
09-10-2010, 10:01 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
The degree of damage to the tire is a determination. A small fine point nail is different than a large bent bolt. Ive seen both.
I plugged a BFG R1 (from the outside) and ran it Bridgehampton. I also got a nail in a tire that didnt leak and ran it too.
The inside plug is a superior repair, but if you have too dismount, balance and re-mount the tire, a new tire replacement could be a better option for the inside plug method.
I would never repair a race slick that doesnt have steel belts.
I plugged a BFG R1 (from the outside) and ran it Bridgehampton. I also got a nail in a tire that didnt leak and ran it too.
The inside plug is a superior repair, but if you have too dismount, balance and re-mount the tire, a new tire replacement could be a better option for the inside plug method.
I would never repair a race slick that doesnt have steel belts.