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Is this LS3 oil starvation issue with just the manuals or do the automatics suffer from the same affliction? I thought I remembered reading there is a difference in the oil pick-up types between the manual and the auto. I am just asking a question, not trying to get flamed for driving an automatic GS. Thanks in advance.
Did you order the EGM-464 Complete Swap Kit for your LS-3?
I'm considering doing this myself, what type of oil do you use at the track?
This past year I changed from Red line to Miller's. Talked to a dyno engineer for Miller's and chemist they swear it would help greatly in my situation. My oil pressure which I have up on my DIC full time never seem to go below 35 psi but never went above 50 psi. It was an improvement but I know factory indicators aren't the most accurate
Did you order the EGM-464 Complete Swap Kit for your LS-3?
I'm considering doing this myself, what type of oil do you use at the track?
This past year I changed from Red line to Miller's. Talked to a dyno engineer for Miller's and chemist they swear it would help greatly in my situation. My oil pressure which I have up on my DIC full time never seem to go below 35 psi but never went above 50 psi. It was an improvement but I know factory indicators aren't the most accurate
I believe that was the part #.
What can you tell me about this oil and how could oil really make a difference?
My LS3 has a Eforce installed which creates additional heat issues.
When I spoke with them they test for all uses including HPDE for entire year without changing the oil. Running oil analysis after each one as well with no findings. It was adviced to me to run 10w60 oil. I only came across this from a Porsche engine builder, who in turn does development work for the oil company doing dyno stress testing.
For me I do at least 8 HPDE each year, every other event I change filters right now.
Also my service level is one quart above normal as stated in the owners manual for track use
My LS3 has a Eforce installed which creates additional heat issues.
When I spoke with them they test for all uses including HPDE for entire year without changing the oil. Running oil analysis after each one as well with no findings. It was adviced to me to run 10w60 oil. I only came across this from a Porsche engine builder, who in turn does development work for the oil company doing dyno stress testing.
For me I do at least 8 HPDE each year, every other event I change filters right now.
Also my service level is one quart above normal as stated in the owners manual for track use
That appears to be a KILLER motor oil but at $20/ liter too rich for my blood when perfectly adequate Mobil 1 can be bought on sale for closer to $4/ quart. I'd definitely run it in my sport bikes if I was still doing that thing.
The oil appears to be great, but if there is no oil pressure through a long left hand turn, it can't do to much to help imo. If I could buy that for $10/ liter I would.
Awesome work and documentation you have provided. But you have race cars. I just have a street car on sticky street tires that I'm hoping not to blow up.
Hopefully what I have done is adequate. I have decided not to worry about it any longer. I've done what I can.
That appears to be a KILLER motor oil but at $20/ liter too rich for my blood when perfectly adequate Mobil 1 can be bought on sale for closer to $4/ quart. I'd definitely run it in my sport bikes if I was still doing that thing.
The oil appears to be great, but if there is no oil pressure through a long left hand turn, it can't do to much to help imo. If I could buy that for $10/ liter I would.
Here's a statement from their Technical Dictator
If the car was running at 100°c on a 5w30 the viscosity would be around
12cSt but at 150°c would thin down to around 5 cSt so the oil film
protection has reduced. By using our CFS 10w60 NT @ 150°c the viscosity is
nearly double that at around 10 cSt thus counter acting the very high
increased temperatures generated on track by this customers car. So in
effect it provides near enough the same oil film protection at 150°c that a
5w30 would at 100°c.
They gave me a 20% discount, I order 2, 5 liter containers at a time. If your interested I have a number to call. Also this oil is very popular with teams running in the 24 hours of Le mans. They tell me I can safely run this for entire year of HPDE's, but I change it when it begin to get darker. Also change filter after two events.
For 20% off and free shipping (plus no sales tax) I might give it a shot. I'd run it for a year though!
So you run the 10-60W?
Can you tell any actual differences at all, or is it just the piece of mind?
It's $158 for two 5 liter jugs, which is very close to redline.
Oil temps are better, it appears steadier oil pressures, plus oil change interval are longer. Which in turns equal a piece of mind. But I still avoid counter clock wise tracks, I have a few I visit, Daytona & Dominion.
I just saw my NASA just picked them up as a sponsor for 2017 as well.
How do you get it done when the stuff on the market won't work?
So how do you dry sump an LS3 on the left (drivers) side? There is A/C and a Prochager on the right side the are not going away. I am willing to lose the power steering if that can help.
So how do you dry sump an LS3 on the left (drivers) side? There is A/C and a Prochager on the right side the are not going away. I am willing to lose the power steering if that can help.
Here's a statement from their Technical Dictator
If the car was running at 100°c on a 5w30 the viscosity would be around
12cSt but at 150°c would thin down to around 5 cSt so the oil film
protection has reduced. By using our CFS 10w60 NT @ 150°c the viscosity is
nearly double that at around 10 cSt thus counter acting the very high
increased temperatures generated on track by this customers car. So in
effect it provides near enough the same oil film protection at 150°c that a
5w30 would at 100°c.
They gave me a 20% discount, I order 2, 5 liter containers at a time. If your interested I have a number to call. Also this oil is very popular with teams running in the 24 hours of Le mans. They tell me I can safely run this for entire year of HPDE's, but I change it when it begin to get darker. Also change filter after two events.
I would be very careful with the recommendation given by the Technical Dictator....(I'm sure it's director, lol). Our danger is the main bearings, not tappets or solid lifter cams.
He is talking about film strength...that is not the issue. Lack of oil is...lack of oil means no oil pressure and that's when parts touch. Crank bearings were never meant to touch each other under load....even if his oil is made from the blood of a angelic unicorn, it can't protect if its not there and under pressure to keep the parts separated. The other danger is if the oil gets too thick under heat it may not move as freely so it won't drain back to the pan as fast....again, causing a lack of oil pressure since what is not there cannot be pumped.
Even zero weight oil will keep everything from touching under pressure since no motor oil is compressible unless aerated....don't let oil shear strength and oil pressure substitute for each other. 0wt oil and 60wt oil at 60 psi provide the exact same ability to keep bearing parts from touching since 60 psi is 60 psi when dealing with different weight fluids that cannot be compressed.
It would be great to hear from a Tribology engineer's opinion regarding this issue.
the 60 psi pressure we usually see gets the oil to the bearing and has nothing to do with what is happening inside of it (the pressure in the hydrodynamic wedge).
its also a fact, that higher viscosity results in a larger distance between the bearing surfaces. if thats needed is another question.
I added the Improved Racing windage tray to my LS3. It's been proven to maintain oil pressure up to around 1.5 Gs which is about the max on good sticky DOT tires. It took me about 5 hours to install it.
I don't even think about this issue anymore but I have ruled out running Hoosiers for this reason.
BTW, my little G meter will recall about 1.53 Gs on R888s (I'm now on R888Rs but have not tracked them yet). Not sure how accurate it is.
I added the Improved Racing windage tray to my LS3. It's been proven to maintain oil pressure up to around 1.5 Gs which is about the max on good sticky DOT tires. It took me about 5 hours to install it.
I don't even think about this issue anymore but I have ruled out running Hoosiers for this reason.
BTW, my little G meter will recall about 1.53 Gs on R888s (I'm now on R888Rs but have not tracked them yet). Not sure how accurate it is.
1.5G on R888's sounds incredibly optimistic. Was that sustained, or just an odd spike? Do you have significant aero?
I'm seeing 1.25G sustained on my first track day with the car on 295 square R888R's, all stock suspension and no aero. It's on a small track with a small'ish carousel.
Last edited by Quickshift_C5; 08-23-2017 at 12:47 PM.
Gs also depend on the track. I've hit 2gs at laguna's turn 9 on 275 nittos that weren't new that weekend. On 315 nittos, 1.3 is about the highest I can get on flat corners. If you are on the street, zero concerns about LS3 oil starvation imo.
11-18-2016, 04:07 PM
