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Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track

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Old 04-27-2011, 01:26 PM   #1
bselltiz
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Default Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track

I have read all I can read about LS3's blowing up, accusump being a crutch fix and dry sumps being the only real solution. So I want to know if there is anyone out there that can give the other side:

Do you fit this bill?

Stock LS3 motor
No dry sump
No Accusump
HPDE or Racing (no autocross)
Better than a street tire
You've done more than a few events
Your motor still runs

Anyone....anyone.....Bueler?
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:39 PM   #2
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I have done 20 track days since last June and my LS3 (non-dry sump, non accusump) has not blown up. However I do short shift about 5k rpm. That being said, I have been behind three (3) Z06s that have blown up. The one at Road Atlanta actually caught on fire and burnt the rear end. I am running RE11s. I have done Roebling four times and they have some long high G radius turns. I run about 1/2 quart of oil over
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:48 PM   #3
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I have done 20 track days since last June and my LS3 (non-dry sump, non accusump) has not blown up. However I do short shift about 5k rpm. That being said, I have been behind three (3) Z06s that have blown up. The one at Road Atlanta actually caught on fire and burnt the rear end. I am running RE11s. I have done Roebling four times and they have some long high G radius turns. I run about 1/2 quart of oil over
I was right behind that guy. Pretty impressive kaBLAMMO.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:48 PM   #4
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I have done 20 track days since last June and my LS3 (non-dry sump, non accusump) has not blown up. However I do short shift about 5k rpm. That being said, I have been behind three (3) Z06s that have blown up. The one at Road Atlanta actually caught on fire and burnt the rear end. I am running RE11s. I have done Roebling four times and they have some long high G radius turns. I run about 1/2 quart of oil over
That's like have a 12 inch dong and only using 6
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:04 PM   #5
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That's like have a 12 inch dong and only using 6
agreed

No motor on this planet is going to grenade if you shift 1500 before redline. You're not trying hard enough!!!
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:18 PM   #6
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agreed

No motor on this planet is going to grenade if you shift 1500 before redline. You're not trying hard enough!!!

I dont know ls3 but why do people shift at redline when peak HP and torque are always below redline? School me.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #7
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I dont know ls3 but why do people shift at redline when peak HP and torque are always below redline? School me.
In some cases it takes too long to up shift and then immediately down shift, best to run the RPMs up some (if you're concerned with time).
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:45 PM   #8
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But my wife isn't complanning (about either)
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:55 PM   #9
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I dont know ls3 but why do people shift at redline when peak HP and torque are always below redline? School me.
so that after the shift is completed, that are AT or just below peek HP.

If you shift AT peek HP, that put you 12-1500 below peek
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:13 PM   #10
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In my C5--
- Modified LS3 (destroyed a stroked LS6 after oil pick-up issues. LS3 is still solid; runs strong...when I drive it--see accusump comments)
- No dry sump (chose an accusump because of the expense of a DS)
- 3-qt accusump (Friggin' pain-in-the-a*z, puke oil all over the inside of my LF fender every six months, supposd to be there to protect my engine investment, P.O.S.; I've had more down time than I care to admit because of it!)
- Used to HPDE 3-5 times a yr (have only been able to go 1 or 2 times in the last few years mainly because of work, but also because of the bad timing of the *&^#$ accusump)
- Nitto 555RII tires
- 30+ HPDE weekends under my belt


Have been behind two C6Z06s when they killed their engines. Drivers said it was due to oil issues, even with the dry sump (2 qt versions) in their cars. One driver said he was on his third warranteed engine.

Hope my luck with the LS3 holds!

Last edited by kedvesh; 04-27-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:52 PM   #11
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What's the problem with the Accusump?
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
I dont know ls3 but why do people shift at redline when peak HP and torque are always below redline? School me.
because 300 ft/lbs in 3rd gear > 375 ft/lbs in 4th gear
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:57 PM   #13
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My LS2 lasted a few years of heavy track use ... just added additional oil like the manual says.

My timing chain let go after 145,000 miles (2005 Z51) ... So now my LS2 is a stroked 403! ... and put's out more power than my 2007 Z06.

Oh ... my Z06 blew up during my 4th track day at Mosport (which has two high G left hand turns) ... so I upgraded the Dry Sump tank, baffled it, and added the oil pick up insert ... so far, so good!


Mark
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:28 PM   #14
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As the unfortunate, foremost authority on blown LS3s, even shifting at 5K will not save you. If you run any type of racing tire or enhanced your suspension and are pulling 1.2 gs or higher (specifically in left hand turns), you will blow it. It's just a matter of time.

That's the whole reason they came out with the DS-equipped Grand Sport. A dry sump is the only real answer. Accusumps just aren't fast enough and you still have the severe blow-by problem and oil puking issues (catch can). The oil just goes up into the pass side head and pools there. The blow-by causes EXTREME oil temps (340+) when you really start to push it.

Some people for whatever reason may not ever get to 1.2 Gs, but the majority of drivers will get there consistently. And spending more than about 1-2 seconds over that G number in a left hand turn is enough to cook the bearings...kaboom.

In short - If you do any type of track driving in anything other than the stock configuration, then you'll need a dry sump...assuming you are doing any serious driving at all.

As far as shift points go...You want to shift at a point where you keep the peak power "in the middle" of the power band. In other words, if the peak HP is at 6K rpm, then you probably need to shift around 6600 because the rpms will fall to about 5600 (or lower) as you shift. Doing that will keep your engine humming along right at the top of the power curve, thus giving you better lap times.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:32 PM   #15
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What's the problem with the Accusump?
Pukes oil out the relief valve under normal, highway conditions. The oil sprays out onto the inside of my LF fender, bleeds out where the fender meets the wheel well, engine compartment and left rocker panel, coating the underside of my 'Vette and dripping onto my driveway and my garage floor.

Loses the 'residual' bladder pressure it's supposed to have when the engine has no oil pressure in the block. Residual pressure was first advised to be set at 7 PSI, then after a few puking incidents and one self-replacement of the relief valve (hated having to remove the bumper to gain access), I was advised to bump up the pressure to 25 PSI.

Puking oil and loss of residual pressure happens in periods between a few weeks to a few months, no matter what the weather/temp.

Latest incident occurred a week before a non-refundable HPDE weekend. I let my engine installer deal with the whole thing this time. He sent the sump and gauge back to Canton for a rebuild. Was informed today that Canton did the rebuild, but could find no cause for the puking and pressure loss. Hmmm. Car's been down for a month as a result. (ARGH!)

I have the da*n thing there to protect the engine during HPDEs, but all it's basically done is frustrate the h-e-double hockey sticks out of me and cost me more time and money.

I don't want to drive my beast on the track until things are fixed/resolved because I'm afraid the sump will let go while in an event, puke oil onto the course, cause an accident and cause me extra cost to clean up the track.

Sooo much fun.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:11 PM   #16
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I dont know ls3 but why do people shift at redline when peak HP and torque are always below redline? School me.
Area under the curve and torque multiplication effect of being in a lower gear. My LS6 pulls hard to redline and that's where I shift on a TT lap. Just driving laps I'll shift when I hear it get over 6000.

I had a Mustang a long time ago and that thing had a 6000 rpm redline, but fell on it's face hard after 5000 rpms. Found the best 1/4 mile times were achieved by winding out 1st gear then shifting at 5200 after that.

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Old 04-27-2011, 07:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kedvesh View Post
Pukes oil out the relief valve under normal, highway conditions. The oil sprays out onto the inside of my LF fender, bleeds out where the fender meets the wheel well, engine compartment and left rocker panel, coating the underside of my 'Vette and dripping onto my driveway and my garage floor.

Loses the 'residual' bladder pressure it's supposed to have when the engine has no oil pressure in the block. Residual pressure was first advised to be set at 7 PSI, then after a few puking incidents and one self-replacement of the relief valve (hated having to remove the bumper to gain access), I was advised to bump up the pressure to 25 PSI.

Puking oil and loss of residual pressure happens in periods between a few weeks to a few months, no matter what the weather/temp.

Latest incident occurred a week before a non-refundable HPDE weekend. I let my engine installer deal with the whole thing this time. He sent the sump and gauge back to Canton for a rebuild. Was informed today that Canton did the rebuild, but could find no cause for the puking and pressure loss. Hmmm. Car's been down for a month as a result. (ARGH!)

I have the da*n thing there to protect the engine during HPDEs, but all it's basically done is frustrate the h-e-double hockey sticks out of me and cost me more time and money.

I don't want to drive my beast on the track until things are fixed/resolved because I'm afraid the sump will let go while in an event, puke oil onto the course, cause an accident and cause me extra cost to clean up the track.

Sooo much fun.
I'm hoping/guessing that this is an issue with your specific setup and not a general issue with Accusumps as a rule... I'm soon picking up a C5Z with one installed!
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:46 PM   #18
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I'm hoping/guessing that this is an issue with your specific setup and not a general issue with Accusumps as a rule... I'm soon picking up a C5Z with one installed!
I've had no problems with the install kit's hoses, fittings, etc. (obtained from a CF sponsor). Problems seemed to be isolated to the accumulator tank (possible blow-by of the internal air bladder, o-rings, etc.), the pressure relief valve or the gauge. So, it seems odd that Canton would indicate they could find no problems with the parts, while agreeing to the rebuild. I'm hoping all potential issues are now resolved and that things were a fluke unique to my situation, but who knows.

Hate to mention it, but my engine installer (also a CF sponsor) recently had another guy bring his C5 in for service on his Accusump system (unknown install kit design; different installer; unknown driving style and environment). He's having the same problems as I'm having. Odd that two current customers have similar issues with no clues as to the cause, but the shop is not aware of any overall product vs operations issues with Canton Accusump components.

As for you, just make sure you understand the revised procedures for changing the oil on an engine with an installed Accusump, how much pressure the DIC is supposed to indicate with the Accusump operating, how much pressure the Accusump is supposed to maintain when primed and with the engine off, how much residual pressure the internal bladder of the accumulator is supposed to maintain after forcing all oil to the engine (key on, engine off, sump on until no DIC oil pressure), when to turn on the system and when to turn it off. Good luck and have fun!
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:51 PM   #19
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08 LS3 w +14K miles % of which are track (and some autox)
CAI, Cam, headers, catless, ATI balancer, Accusump, IJ crank scraper & windage tray, Z06 oil cooler, VBP springs & bushings, Koni 3013, wing, splitter, Hoosier R6/A6/R100 etc .....

Shift between 6500-7200 rpm when tracking.

Last edited by Webz; 06-26-2011 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:17 PM   #20
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Webz - any problems with the Accusump?
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