sperkins

I've been using Carbotech XP12 front and XP10 rear for a couple of years now with good results, but am fed up with how fast they wear.
Carbotechs excuse for their fast wear rate is that they're easy on rotors. I can understand that since something has to give, but a stock C5 front rotor costs me under 40 bucks so it doesn't make sense to me to burn through $250 pads to protect a $40 rotor.

I've heard many complaints that Hawk pads pop stock rotors like crazy. I can live with that since I'm already changing rotors at the track on a regular basis, but I'm in the market for a set of 2pc or full floating rotors soon so hopefully that will help.

So my questions are for stock C5 calipers:
1. Run DTC-70's on all four corners or 70 front and 60 rear?
2. Does the 70 have similar characteristics to the XP12?
3. Anyone running 70's with 2pc or full floating rotors that can give feedback on cracking rotors?

Thanks.


Oh yeah, Hawk offers a NASA contingency.
Carbotech....

SouthernSon

I am there ATTM. I have the AP T1 2 pc. rotors with 70's/60's. Really, just have one full weekend on them and the front rotors show some small crazing on surface. I will have to see how this progresses later in the summer. Hopefully it will not go much further. I'll let you know. My immediate problem seems to be rear rotors cracking too often. I run with all TC controls off but it doesn't seem to help the rears. I wonder if anyone supplies a stainless steel piston for OEM C5 rears? I need to refurbish both.

95jersey

Hawk brake dust is evil. It will ruin your paint eventually. Too bad they don't make Wilwood pads for OEM brakes. My Wilwoods have always lasted a long time compared to all other pad manufacturers.

I will say the Carbo's have an awesome initial bite even when cold. They have great pedal feel and modulation, whereas the Wilwoods and Hawk's need to come up to temp for a few laps. At first you push and you almost have nothing, then after 3 laps they come into heat range.

Also the Hawk's are pricey, which for many makes them unattractive. If you going through pads that fast, your caliper may be sticking or hung up. Maybe you should upgrade your caliper to the Wilwood SL6 or Gary's new kit? When I got the SL6 on my C5Z, the wilwood H pads lasted FOREVER and they were like $150. Basically my SL6 paid for itself in under 2 seasons with the lower cost of pad and the better longevity. I did notice I cracked rotors more quickly, but not significantly more.

Ditch the OEM calipers and get a caliper with a CHEAP FAT pad (like the SL6). You'll love pad changes when you simply remove a 5ft lb. allen head and just pull the bridge. Pad changes go down to seconds, takes longer to jack the car and remove the wheel. You want to save money, get rid of the caliper, but keep the OEM rotors.

I run Wilwoods on my C6Z and I bought 3 sets of H pads on special at Jegs for like $100 each....big difference compared to $350 one piece pads.

wtknght1

After many back to back tests with both the Carbos and Hawks, I can tell you that I like the Carbos better. Here's why:

1. The Carbos are more consistent thru the whole braking zone. The 70s have more initial bite, but aren't consistent (to me) thru the rest of the zone. The Carbos have the same characteristics thru the entire zone...and on the whole track.

2. The wear rate was actually 1mm better for the Carbos than the Hawks. I tested both my C5 and my C6 on both brands of brakes and on each test, the Hawks wore 1mm further (more) than the XP12s on the same track. My first test was at HPT using my C5, the next test was a year later with my C6, and I tested Road America with my C6.

3. Carbos are cheaper.

4. Hawk dust is EXTREMELY corrosive and god help you if it gets wet and gets on the wheels. You just can't get that stuff off. Carbotech uses a ceramic style compound that is non corrosive and very easy to clean...just blow the dust off.

5. The Hawks definitely crack rotors quicker and gouge them more. In comparison, the Carbotech padded rotors look reasonably smooth compared to the DTC70s.

Do your own testing and see for yourself, but I'm 99.9% sure you'll come to the same conclusions. Carbos rule!

drivinhard

Doesn't WW make an "H" pad for the stock C5?

WW's "A" dust is nasty stuff, never tried the H

MYRX

Have you explored Carbone Lorraine Pads? I switched from hawks to these last year. So far, I am very pleased. Keep in mind, until now, I have been running only in HPDE 3. We will see what happens at RA in June, (TTA). I called Essex, spoke to sales rep, (he sometimes is on the forum) and we selected the pads for me. .

Falcon

Yes.

Summit. $199 fronts.

Last forever, but will go through rotors every couple of weekends if bedded.

ScaryFast

Do you have the 2 points left to upgrade your brakes? You'll save so much money in the long run it's not even funny...

If you want good pricing on Hawk go see Jay:

www.andrew-racing.com

He gives a NASA discount and an even bigger one if you're an instructor. I don't know if that applies to any region or just ours, but it's worth a call.

redtopz

Here is my experience. I ran hawk dtc70 in front and cobalt friction xr2 rear with C5Z brakes. The hawks killed my rotors every day. Then I switched to pfc-01 and they were good pads, but not as consistent as I would like. I have dtc70's on my st2 car which has big stoptech brakes and 14" rotors and they are awesome. The rotors will last a whole season. So, it depends on what brakes you have and how much heat they can dissipate.

I'm running the CL RC6 pads front and rear on my T1 car right now with wilwood SL6 front calipers and stock rears. They are very easy on rotors and good pads overall. However, I need to try something different with my T1 car because my pedal is getting very soft for the last 10 minutes of the race. I have drm cooling ducts and castrol srf fluid, but for some reason my brakes can't take the heat for a 30 minute race. Once they cool down a little they work well so it's not air in the lines. I might try a different pad (carbotech or raysbestos).

PushinTheLimit

That is my experience right now using the Carbotec pads with my SL6 front calipers and stock rears. I have changed out just about everything brake wise on the car now an the last 10 minutes of my ST2 races, I'm pumping the pedal once going into big braking zones. When I do that, they stop great. Just would be nice to not have to pump the brakes through an entire race. But I've never ran anything but the Carbo's.

95jersey

I use BP10 for street and H for track. Dust is fine and cleans off easily. I find the BP-10 (aggressive street) to dust less than OEM pads.

Bill Dearborn

I used the Q pad on the street. It worked fine for me.

Bill

drivinhard

he's got 3,000 pts to use, but all you hear is moaning and groaning about not having enough, or have to use them for weight, etc

sperkins

A real brake kit would cost me 30lbs.

drivinhard

I'd take it every day, all day for PTA

TTA, maybe not

BERETTA

I have only used Hawk 70's front and 60's rear. I really like them, but I have never ran anything else.
Mark were you in my car long enough to make any kind of comparison? I know my car is a couple hundred pounds heavier than yours

sperkins

Exactly

drivinhard

yeah it didn't stop

bite felt comparable to the XP12 I run, but yeah your car is heavier so it's hard to A/B compare

vms4evr

Interesting comparisons. It depends on your setup from my perspective. Your initial posts really covers it for me.

I started with stock C5 Z06 and Carbotechs. Xp10/Xp8. Then added DRM brake ducts and Motul. Then went to Xp12/Xp10. I liked the braking but the cost for pads for stock front calipers is too high. Rotors were cheap. At that time NAPA blanks cost me $30, made in Canada ones. The Xp12 pads wore out way too quick. Xp10s wore much better. It was cheaper to buy rotors. So I swapped to Hawk and went DTC70/60. Killed rotors, the dust is horrible, and when wet screws up wheels. If they are dedicated track wheels who cares. The Carbotechs have a more consistent modulation feel where the Hawks are like throwing an anchor out the window. If your biggest concern is initial braking I would take Hawk DTC70 over a Carbo Xp12. This was with mixtures of Nitto R2s and Hoosier R6 and 1 set of A6. With A6s and DTC70s you feel like a God at stopping and turning. I stuck with Hawk because the rotor wear was much more cost effective than pad wear for very similar braking capability.

Now the next phase. So I got sick and tired of pad taper. Yeah I swapped/stacked them every day. Still sucked. Rotors were a given. I went to Wilwood SL6R fronts with their 2-peice rotor. First test was with some Wilwood H and A pads I got given. As are ok but harsh on rotor and didn't feel better than Hs. For the cost, for DEs and fun. H's are hard to beat. Wear well on pad and rotor.

Here is the rub. I'm now going back to Carbotech and the softer/faster wearing pads. S I'll run Xp10 or Xp12. Now I'm buying pads for Wilwood calipers the pads are much cheaper. The rotor rings are more expensive. That tables have turned the opposite direction. Rotor rings on the 2-piece are nice and light. But they cost $200 a side. Pads will cost me maybe $160-$180 a set. Wearing through pads now is more cost effective. Not to mention changing rotors now is also a pita since you don't just yank the rotor. You have to disassemble and reassemble. Time consuming unless you buy a spare set of rotors (hats really).

At the end of the day I like Hawk and Carbotech and find Wilwood Hs for the price have the best wear with least abuse of rotor. For a TT car where you want the most braking and don't care about wear then I would run DTC70. Now I have never tried the new Xp16. I stopped at Xp12.

I'm starting all over again since I took a few years off more or less. So right now, for me, to do DE events, cost is more of an issue. I'll run the combo that keeps my brake costs lower. I'll run Hoosier Rs and Grand Am takeoffs cause they're fun and wear pretty good.

As for getting contingency money. I think those vendors deserve that extra look. Since they actually sponsor grassroots and amateurs instead of just sticking their hands in your pockets...

hellrazr

Sorry this doesn't answer your original question, but based on what you are asking, consider the Raybestos race pads (ST-43, ST-41, etc).