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T1 control arms?

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Old 07-31-2011, 02:16 PM   #1
mountainbiker2
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Default T1 control arms?

I'm really getting tired of the poly bushings binding. You can't ever get the same reading when you go to corner balance. I'm thinking of going back to stock control arms for the back. Which I never had trouble with. Then buy T1 front control arms. What do you guys think? I keep thinking about spherical bearings, but afraid of poor quality or other issues that no one talks about. This C5 is only driven to the track for autocross.

thanks,

Steve A.

Last edited by mountainbiker2; 07-31-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:12 PM   #2
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the blackdog monoballs are first class.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:37 PM   #3
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No Way dude! T1 arms do the same thing. The trouble I go through to corner weight is such a pain. Stichion is in the arms and in the transverse leafs. IMO the only time I had effortless corner balance was not on a Vette but with monoballs and coilovers.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by trackboss View Post
the blackdog monoballs are first class.
What do you do with the uppers? The website just shows lowers.

thanks,

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No Way dude! T1 arms do the same thing. The trouble I go through to corner weight is such a pain. Stichion is in the arms and in the transverse leafs. IMO the only time I had effortless corner balance was not on a Vette but with monoballs and coilovers.
I do have coil overs. My friend has a totally stock 04 Z06. He told me that he had no problems corner balancing do to stiction. I didn't believe him, so I told him to stick it on the scales while we were trying to do mine. Sure enough no matter what we did, just driving on them, jumping up and down on the car, jump on one side only, it would always read within 1-2 lbs. the same. From what you saying that's not the case with your car. Now what??

thanks,
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:26 PM   #5
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what bushings do you have?
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:37 PM   #6
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I do have coil overs. My friend has a totally stock 04 Z06. He told me that he had no problems corner balancing do to stiction. I didn't believe him, so I told him to stick it on the scales while we were trying to do mine. Sure enough no matter what we did, just driving on them, jumping up and down on the car, jump on one side only, it would always read within 1-2 lbs. the same. From what you saying that's not the case with your car. Now what??

thanks,
I work on a lift with slip plates and flat floor and scales my car is 2004z06 z16. If you lift the car then drop it on slip plates the stichion is a pain to settle out. In your friend's case if you don't upset the rideheight by lifting then you can get what you experienced. but I do not find it easy to adjust ride height and settings by only using rolloff set-up because I use a twinpost lift. I think you will be fine on your coils if you go to monoballs or delrin. I have made custom delrin bushing on a lathe and never had stichion issues. The problems are with rubber and poly/urethane. monoballs are expensive. delrin you can make for less than $100bucks.
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:37 PM   #7
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what bushings do you have?
VB&P.

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I work on a lift with slip plates and flat floor and scales my car is 2004z06 z16. If you lift the car then drop it on slip plates the stichion is a pain to settle out. In your friend's case if you don't upset the rideheight by lifting then you can get what you experienced. but I do not find it easy to adjust ride height and settings by only using rolloff set-up because I use a twinpost lift. I think you will be fine on your coils if you go to monoballs or delrin. I have made custom delrin bushing on a lathe and never had stichion issues. The problems are with rubber and poly/urethane. monoballs are expensive. delrin you can make for less than $100bucks.
When we make a change, we just drove the car around the block. Delrin is not possible for me. No lathe. Cost for monoballs from Blackdog racing is $1300 for all 4, but you still have to use poly for the uppers. Pfadt is $1900 for spherical bearings that cover all the pivots. $1900 for all new control arms, with T1 fronts. I'm not saying money isn't important, but I just want to do the job one time. I know there might be some maintenance involved, but polys will never work that good even when greased. I don't want to go that route again. That's why I got excited when my friends 04 Z06 had no stiction. When I had stock control arms in the front, I was buying control arms every six months. I'm hoping with the T1 control arms they will last much longer. If they don't, then monoballs or spherical bearings are my only choice. What is the difference between monoballs and spherical bearings? I would like to make up my mind ASAP. It's been bugging me for awhile now.

thanks,
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:43 PM   #8
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loosen the lower control arm bolts...you must be "squeezing" the bushings too tight. You need a 4-post lift, poly bushings should work fine.

T1 bushings are just stiffer durometer rubber OEM, and will be worse than either OEM or Poly for "stiction"
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mountainbiker2 View Post
VB&P.
I have worked on several corvette's with VB&P and Pfadt (and installed probably 1/2 dozen Pfadt, and 2 VB&P) and I don't see the binding issues with the Pfadt like I do with the VB&P.

(And I'm not telling you go go buy Pfadt's Poly kit, some of us can only use it as a "best" option for class restrictions) but just saying AS a poly kit, it's much better in my experience.

If you have the $$, I'd run their bearings. Like David said, the OEM rubber would be worse. With the twisting of the bushing through the movement, it introduces a whole new set of forces. Plus the arms are still going to come off the bushings eventually.

I have no problems getting repeatable numbers on the scales, and I have only added more lube to the front uppers (while changing locking clip styles) since I have installed them. We are talking about 30-35 events.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:53 PM   #10
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The Pfadt Sphericals have been awesome. I would highly recommend them. Worth every penny.
Just when you install them use silicone instead of the green loctite they come with. Then if you need to replace a control arm you don't need a bunch of heat and a press to get the bearings out to reuse them.

Last edited by geerookie; 08-03-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:21 AM   #11
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I thought the twisting action of the stock ones were a good thing. It might add some spring rate, but I don't see how any binding can occur. Now I'm think spherical bearings with all your comments.

thanks,
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:10 AM   #12
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monoball and spherical is pretty much the same thing. The custom part is the housing and hardware to package it and install it in a specific application. IMO, blackdog has done the best job. The housings are splined, like a wheel stud, to register correctly and make up for any difference in tolerance of control arm bores.
For the uppers I have pfadt urethane. They move around A LOT. I believe DRM has an upper control arm setup, but they require one to send their parts to them for installation. I'm pretty sure they do that so they can custom machine the sleeves to fit your particular control arms precisely then simply heat the bores, cool the sleeves, and press together. Doing what blackdog did with the lowers would eliminate that with all but extremely out of tolerance arms.
For my rear uppers I have delrin that works very well.
The majority of the "sticktion" you are probably experiencing is probably the fact that the track width chances significantly (narrows) when the car is lifted in the air. Without some slip plates that allow for lots of track change when lowering back down the ride height will never settle correctly. I simply have pairs of steel plates greased in between that work well. Every time I drop the car I can see how much the track increases, and it is quite a bit. The other sticky part is the leaf spring pads if you are using leaf springs. There is a solution to that as well.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:45 PM   #13
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I ordered Pfadt spherical bearings today. I'll write a review when I get them all put in. I have a practice race Aug. 13th. Thanks for all the comments. Blackdog does not have uppers, but they said they should in 6 wks. Pfadt has everything, plus they have been out for awhile. Good luck to me.

Steve A.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
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I ordered Pfadt spherical bearings today. I'll write a review when I get them all put in. I have a practice race Aug. 13th. Thanks for all the comments. Blackdog does not have uppers, but they said they should in 6 wks. Pfadt has everything, plus they have been out for awhile. Good luck to me.

Steve A.
You da man! I look forward to seeing what you think about them.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainbiker2 View Post
I ordered Pfadt spherical bearings today. I'll write a review when I get them all put in. I have a practice race Aug. 13th. Thanks for all the comments. Blackdog does not have uppers, but they said they should in 6 wks. Pfadt has everything, plus they have been out for awhile. Good luck to me.

Steve A.
I'll be interested in this as I'm looking at suspension upgrades and now trying to decide what to do.

Jay
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:25 PM   #16
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The kit came in today. Looks real good. Only had to sand a couple of them to fit.



Steve A.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:29 PM   #17
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Those are pretty Steve. Pfadt makes such great quality products.

speedventures has a little auto-x 8/13/11 are you going to test them?
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:22 PM   #18
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Those are pretty Steve. Pfadt makes such great quality products.

speedventures has a little auto-x 8/13/11 are you going to test them?
I'm going to a CSCC autocross at El Toro that weekend. Practice in my car Saturday. Then race a stock C5 Z06 Sunday. I'll start a new thread with a review on them.

Steve
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #19
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Nice work there! Be sure to let us know how they're performing for you. I'm sure you're going to be really happy with the results!
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:22 PM   #20
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Now everything is bolted up. I took it out for a spin and it feels about the same going down the freeway. Not really any louder and it could actually be a little smoother over the bumps. Saturday is going to be the real test, when I attempt to corner balance it again.






Steve A.
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