Risks Haunted Fatal Race
10-18-2011, 10:39 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Risks Haunted Fatal Race
What are your guys thoughts on CEO Benard's comments? Out of context? Yes, racing is dangerous, but safety has always has been about limiting the damage, not increasing it. Reminds me of Hockey drafting bigger guys for fighting purposes because that's what the fans like.
At least NASCAR drivers have cages around them but at 200+, all bets are off.
Shoulda, Coulda and Woulda surely don't make a difference now, so sad.
In today's WSJ:
By ALEXANDRA BERZON And RACHEL BACHMAN
LAS VEGAS—Sunday's IndyCar Series race here was supposed to be a showcase event for a struggling sport undergoing a transformation.
Essential to attracting new crowds, said IndyCar Chief Executive Randy Bernard, was increasing the excitement—and risks—on the racetrack.
Promotional materials for the Las Vegas race on IndyCar's website predicted "the wildest race of the season" because the track was unusually "fast and smooth."
Getty Images
'Danger has been an inherent part of the sport since 1909.' -- IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard
In the materials, one driver, Ryan Hunter-Reay, said, "All it takes is one mistake by one driver, and it could be huge consequences. This should be a nail-biter for the fans, and it's going to be insane for the drivers."
Now, as track officials try to piece together the causes of Sunday's 15-car crash that killed driver Dan Wheldon, race-industry officials, drivers and families in the sport are questioning whether the risks were too high.
After taking over the Indy series in March 2010, Mr. Bernard tried to make Indy racing more exciting, like its more popular cousin, Nascar. The Indy circuit packed more cars into each contest, for instance.
Mr. Bernard also started using side-by-side restarts. The restarts, which occur after the course is slowed by a yellow flag, meant cars were closer together, raising the possibility that their exposed wheels could touch and result in crashes.
In an interview in June with the Globe and Mail newspaper, Mr. Bernard said the change to restarts would mean more "carnage and wrecks," adding that "danger will be an important element of the sport."
"I'm sorry if my comments are interpreted this way," he said in an email Monday. "Danger has been an inherent part of the sport since 1909. I don't know if what I said was taken out of context or I misspoke, but if you know me, you know where my loyalties lie, and I'm very respectful to the drivers and the sport."
In an interview, Jody Scheckter, a former Formula One driver whose son Tomas was in Sunday's accident, said that for the past few years he has been concerned about safety of the IndyCar contests and is encouraging his son to stop racing Indy cars. "Now I'm going to have to push harder," he said.
Asked if Sunday's race was run under dangerous circumstances, Chris Powell, president and CEO of Las Vegas Motor Speedway, said, "We allow the experts at IndyCar, or whatever sanctioning body we might be dealing with, to make those decisions."
Racing driver Dan Wheldon, who racked up 16 wins in a decade-long IndyCar career, died Sunday in a fiery crash involving 15 cars at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Jonathan Welsh has details on Lunch Break
"Not only did they have practice and qualifying on Friday, but they had testing on Thursday. And then two different test sessions earlier this summer. So theExperts at IndyCar were more than aware, or acutely aware, I should say, of every nuance of Las Vegas Motor Speedway before the drivers took the green flag," Mr. Powell added.
Before coming to IndyCar, Mr. Bernard had developed a reputation as a marketing whiz who turned the once-obscure sport of bull-riding into a nationally televised phenomenon. Purses expanded up to $2 million.
By the time he left, Mr. Bernard increased purses for the PBR world finals to $2 million from $1 million, and created bull-riding events shown on major networks including CBS and NBC.
"Now we have guys making over $100,000 a year as a bull rider, which in the past was unheard of," said Jack Carnefix, a spokesman for Professional Bull Riders Inc.
Mr. Bernard was recruited with a similar mandate to the Indy circuit. To steal fans back from Nascar, he brought the Indy circuit to tracks around the country that hadn't seen the low-slung cars for more than a decade.
Though Nascar cars move at slower speeds than their Indy counterparts they generally race in tight packs and bump up against one another.
Deadly Speedway Crash
View Slideshow
Robert Laberge/Getty Images
Dan Wheldon's car flips in a deadly crash.
More photos and interactive graphics
Some of Mr. Bernard's efforts appeared to be paying off. This year, Indy races on Versus drew the most viewers since the cable channel started airing races in 2009.
For many longtime racers, as well as some sponsors, the Las Vegas race—the league's season finale—was to be the culmination of many of those efforts.
Leading up to the event, the league sparked buzz around the rivalry between two of the top drivers who would be competing for the league title. It held a parade of Indy cars on the Las Vegas Strip and a drivers' blackjack tournament. The closing gala was to be held at the Mandalay Bay casino on Monday evening.
Media attention focused on a publicity stunt: Mr. Bernard had offered $5 million to any driver who could start in last place and win the race, splitting the money with a fan. Mr. Wheldon, a two-time Indianapolis 500 winner, took the challenge. Mr. Wheldon spent time before the race granting interviews to Extra and other media outlets in Los Angeles.
"The buzz in Vegas was amazing before the race," said Silvia Pierson, a chief operating officer for Apex-Brasil USA, a Brazilian trade investment promotion agency that sponsors IndyCar. Apex brought 150 business people to the event Sunday.
The crash at the Las Vegas 300 occurred shortly after the beginning of Sunday's race on a bright Nevada day.
Several cars near the front of the pack became bogged down during the 11th lap as Mr. Wheldon began threading his way from last place through the field of 34 cars.
His race car struck another and flew into the air at high speed before smashing into a wall. The car, No. 77, then exploded in a ball of fire.
In the wake of the accident, many people in the car-racing industry emphasized the overall safety of the sport. Deadly crashes are relatively rare.
"The league is very responsible and has been doing a fantastic job and staying ahead of the curve on the safety side," said Mario Andretti, a celebrated former racer. "But it's a never-ending project."
Next year the league is introducing its first major car redesign in many years, which Mr. Andretti said he expects will be safer due to a variety of new features.
Others said there was growing trepidation over the direction of Indy racing.
Mr. Scheckter, the former Formula One driver, said he has been concerned about regulations that have the effect of encouraging cars to maintain speed around corners, which can bunch cars together.
"You have four cars abreast sometimes, and that just seems completely mad," he said. "It's exciting because the cars are riding close together, but it's very dangerous."
Before the race in Las Vegas, drivers noticed very smooth corners, he said, a sign that cars would keep up fast speeds even as they turned through the oval race track.
"Racing in a pack has become more common in our league," said Larry Foyt, who runs the AJ Foyt Racing team. "The thing is it's exciting and the fans like it. But we've got to look and see, this form of racing maybe it's not right for our cars."
At least NASCAR drivers have cages around them but at 200+, all bets are off.
Shoulda, Coulda and Woulda surely don't make a difference now, so sad.
In today's WSJ:
By ALEXANDRA BERZON And RACHEL BACHMAN
LAS VEGAS—Sunday's IndyCar Series race here was supposed to be a showcase event for a struggling sport undergoing a transformation.
Essential to attracting new crowds, said IndyCar Chief Executive Randy Bernard, was increasing the excitement—and risks—on the racetrack.
Promotional materials for the Las Vegas race on IndyCar's website predicted "the wildest race of the season" because the track was unusually "fast and smooth."
Getty Images
'Danger has been an inherent part of the sport since 1909.' -- IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard
In the materials, one driver, Ryan Hunter-Reay, said, "All it takes is one mistake by one driver, and it could be huge consequences. This should be a nail-biter for the fans, and it's going to be insane for the drivers."
Now, as track officials try to piece together the causes of Sunday's 15-car crash that killed driver Dan Wheldon, race-industry officials, drivers and families in the sport are questioning whether the risks were too high.
After taking over the Indy series in March 2010, Mr. Bernard tried to make Indy racing more exciting, like its more popular cousin, Nascar. The Indy circuit packed more cars into each contest, for instance.
Mr. Bernard also started using side-by-side restarts. The restarts, which occur after the course is slowed by a yellow flag, meant cars were closer together, raising the possibility that their exposed wheels could touch and result in crashes.
In an interview in June with the Globe and Mail newspaper, Mr. Bernard said the change to restarts would mean more "carnage and wrecks," adding that "danger will be an important element of the sport."
"I'm sorry if my comments are interpreted this way," he said in an email Monday. "Danger has been an inherent part of the sport since 1909. I don't know if what I said was taken out of context or I misspoke, but if you know me, you know where my loyalties lie, and I'm very respectful to the drivers and the sport."
In an interview, Jody Scheckter, a former Formula One driver whose son Tomas was in Sunday's accident, said that for the past few years he has been concerned about safety of the IndyCar contests and is encouraging his son to stop racing Indy cars. "Now I'm going to have to push harder," he said.
Asked if Sunday's race was run under dangerous circumstances, Chris Powell, president and CEO of Las Vegas Motor Speedway, said, "We allow the experts at IndyCar, or whatever sanctioning body we might be dealing with, to make those decisions."
Racing driver Dan Wheldon, who racked up 16 wins in a decade-long IndyCar career, died Sunday in a fiery crash involving 15 cars at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Jonathan Welsh has details on Lunch Break
"Not only did they have practice and qualifying on Friday, but they had testing on Thursday. And then two different test sessions earlier this summer. So theExperts at IndyCar were more than aware, or acutely aware, I should say, of every nuance of Las Vegas Motor Speedway before the drivers took the green flag," Mr. Powell added.
Before coming to IndyCar, Mr. Bernard had developed a reputation as a marketing whiz who turned the once-obscure sport of bull-riding into a nationally televised phenomenon. Purses expanded up to $2 million.
By the time he left, Mr. Bernard increased purses for the PBR world finals to $2 million from $1 million, and created bull-riding events shown on major networks including CBS and NBC.
"Now we have guys making over $100,000 a year as a bull rider, which in the past was unheard of," said Jack Carnefix, a spokesman for Professional Bull Riders Inc.
Mr. Bernard was recruited with a similar mandate to the Indy circuit. To steal fans back from Nascar, he brought the Indy circuit to tracks around the country that hadn't seen the low-slung cars for more than a decade.
Though Nascar cars move at slower speeds than their Indy counterparts they generally race in tight packs and bump up against one another.
Deadly Speedway Crash
View Slideshow
Robert Laberge/Getty Images
Dan Wheldon's car flips in a deadly crash.
More photos and interactive graphics
Some of Mr. Bernard's efforts appeared to be paying off. This year, Indy races on Versus drew the most viewers since the cable channel started airing races in 2009.
For many longtime racers, as well as some sponsors, the Las Vegas race—the league's season finale—was to be the culmination of many of those efforts.
Leading up to the event, the league sparked buzz around the rivalry between two of the top drivers who would be competing for the league title. It held a parade of Indy cars on the Las Vegas Strip and a drivers' blackjack tournament. The closing gala was to be held at the Mandalay Bay casino on Monday evening.
Media attention focused on a publicity stunt: Mr. Bernard had offered $5 million to any driver who could start in last place and win the race, splitting the money with a fan. Mr. Wheldon, a two-time Indianapolis 500 winner, took the challenge. Mr. Wheldon spent time before the race granting interviews to Extra and other media outlets in Los Angeles.
"The buzz in Vegas was amazing before the race," said Silvia Pierson, a chief operating officer for Apex-Brasil USA, a Brazilian trade investment promotion agency that sponsors IndyCar. Apex brought 150 business people to the event Sunday.
The crash at the Las Vegas 300 occurred shortly after the beginning of Sunday's race on a bright Nevada day.
Several cars near the front of the pack became bogged down during the 11th lap as Mr. Wheldon began threading his way from last place through the field of 34 cars.
His race car struck another and flew into the air at high speed before smashing into a wall. The car, No. 77, then exploded in a ball of fire.
In the wake of the accident, many people in the car-racing industry emphasized the overall safety of the sport. Deadly crashes are relatively rare.
"The league is very responsible and has been doing a fantastic job and staying ahead of the curve on the safety side," said Mario Andretti, a celebrated former racer. "But it's a never-ending project."
Next year the league is introducing its first major car redesign in many years, which Mr. Andretti said he expects will be safer due to a variety of new features.
Others said there was growing trepidation over the direction of Indy racing.
Mr. Scheckter, the former Formula One driver, said he has been concerned about regulations that have the effect of encouraging cars to maintain speed around corners, which can bunch cars together.
"You have four cars abreast sometimes, and that just seems completely mad," he said. "It's exciting because the cars are riding close together, but it's very dangerous."
Before the race in Las Vegas, drivers noticed very smooth corners, he said, a sign that cars would keep up fast speeds even as they turned through the oval race track.
"Racing in a pack has become more common in our league," said Larry Foyt, who runs the AJ Foyt Racing team. "The thing is it's exciting and the fans like it. But we've got to look and see, this form of racing maybe it's not right for our cars."
10-18-2011, 11:04 AM
#2
Tech Contributor
As diabolical and hideous as it may sound, the Nevada IndyCar race may be something that does bring in more attendance.
Personally, I do not in any way imagine that ANYONE involved in the sport actually wants "carnage" of any kind. Sometimes, it is difficult to seperate the marketing verbage from the motivation behind those words and phrases.
It does not take many (any?) consumer studies to learn that racing spectators crave ACTION. I don't think too many would argue that the intense sense of DANGER is also a key ingredient. Many (most) of the commercials for upcoming auto races are filled with scenes of spectacular accidents! To a typical racing spectator, the crash is equally, if not more thrilling, than a nose-to-nose dash across the start/finish line. It is these very people who are paying the bills at the tracks.
So, the "balancing act" in marketing to these bill-paying spectators, is to emphasize the PROSPECT of great DANGER, the POSSIBILITY of accidents, and the PROMISE of close racing; and on the engineering and mamagement end, keep the drivers, their crews, and those same spectators safe from harm.
When one thinks about it, most of the time, (a HUGE PERCENTAGE of the time!) professional racing organizations (promoters, organizers, track owners, sanctioning bodies, teams, engineers, drivers) are successful at providing the thrills the spectators crave, AND bringing everyone back to the pits safely. Unfortunately, on rare occasions like Sunday, everything goes terribly wrong!
Was it the track? "Before the race in Las Vegas, drivers noticed very smooth corners, he said, a sign that cars would keep up fast speeds even as they turned through the oval race track." Now, those of you that race, just think about this "complaint" for a moment. ANY DRIVER in his right mind prefers a smooth track, because it allows the car to remain "set", and affords better traction. In a tragedy like this, people are looking for things to blame - even things that are benefits! - but, there is nothing to blame. We are racers, and there are risks.
Ed
Personally, I do not in any way imagine that ANYONE involved in the sport actually wants "carnage" of any kind. Sometimes, it is difficult to seperate the marketing verbage from the motivation behind those words and phrases.
It does not take many (any?) consumer studies to learn that racing spectators crave ACTION. I don't think too many would argue that the intense sense of DANGER is also a key ingredient. Many (most) of the commercials for upcoming auto races are filled with scenes of spectacular accidents! To a typical racing spectator, the crash is equally, if not more thrilling, than a nose-to-nose dash across the start/finish line. It is these very people who are paying the bills at the tracks.
So, the "balancing act" in marketing to these bill-paying spectators, is to emphasize the PROSPECT of great DANGER, the POSSIBILITY of accidents, and the PROMISE of close racing; and on the engineering and mamagement end, keep the drivers, their crews, and those same spectators safe from harm.
When one thinks about it, most of the time, (a HUGE PERCENTAGE of the time!) professional racing organizations (promoters, organizers, track owners, sanctioning bodies, teams, engineers, drivers) are successful at providing the thrills the spectators crave, AND bringing everyone back to the pits safely. Unfortunately, on rare occasions like Sunday, everything goes terribly wrong!
Was it the track? "Before the race in Las Vegas, drivers noticed very smooth corners, he said, a sign that cars would keep up fast speeds even as they turned through the oval race track." Now, those of you that race, just think about this "complaint" for a moment. ANY DRIVER in his right mind prefers a smooth track, because it allows the car to remain "set", and affords better traction. In a tragedy like this, people are looking for things to blame - even things that are benefits! - but, there is nothing to blame. We are racers, and there are risks.
Ed
Last edited by RacePro Engineering; 10-18-2011 at 12:22 PM.
10-18-2011, 11:16 AM
#3
Safety Car
Interesting... from a marketing perspective I can see what he was trying to do. However, as Larry Foyt is quoted above, "this form of racing maybe it's not right for our cars."
I mean you can't do NASCAR bumpin' and bangin' with fragile 220+ mph open wheeled cars.
I don't understand Indy Car... why not have them do road racing since we don't have F1 over here?
I mean you can't do NASCAR bumpin' and bangin' with fragile 220+ mph open wheeled cars.
I don't understand Indy Car... why not have them do road racing since we don't have F1 over here?
10-18-2011, 11:20 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
I have been involved in track wrecks where guys were killed or seriously injured including me. Drivers must know this and be prepared. When I was much younger and much more stupid I did what I had to to win. I never thought about my young wife and kids because I was doing what I wanted to do, it was fun and rewarding. Weldon's loss is very sad. I hope every one will pray for him and his family.
Bernard wants to make the events more exciting but it should not happen at the expense of participants. However, I must point out with all the damage 14 of the 15 involved will race again!
Jim
Bernard wants to make the events more exciting but it should not happen at the expense of participants. However, I must point out with all the damage 14 of the 15 involved will race again!
Jim
10-18-2011, 11:47 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
This tragedy has been coming for about 2 years. I first noticed the increased speeds and tight packs on the banked 1.5 mile tracks two years ago at the Indy race at Texas. I have NEVER seen anything like it and after the race I was a nervous wreck, just from watching. Well, I wasn't the only one - the drivers have been talking about that specific type of track and pack running since. They have been lucky enough that tragedy did not strike - until now.
I guarantee you there will be changes. They could include; reduced downforce (to spread out the cars), power/speed limitations, different tires (less grip to spread out the cars), limiting the cars in the field on this type of track, and requiring minimum levels of high speed oval experience from the entrants, etc.
And I predict they will try to figure out how to enclose the cockpit as well.
I guarantee you there will be changes. They could include; reduced downforce (to spread out the cars), power/speed limitations, different tires (less grip to spread out the cars), limiting the cars in the field on this type of track, and requiring minimum levels of high speed oval experience from the entrants, etc.
And I predict they will try to figure out how to enclose the cockpit as well.
10-18-2011, 11:53 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
This tragedy has been coming for about 2 years. I first noticed the increased speeds and tight packs on the banked 1.5 mile tracks two years ago at the Indy race at Texas. I have NEVER seen anything like it and after the race I was a nervous wreck, just from watching. Well, I wasn't the only one - the drivers have been talking about that specific type of track and pack running since. They have been lucky enough that tragedy did not strike - until now.
I guarantee you there will be changes. They could include; reduced downforce (to spread out the cars), power/speed limitations, different tires (less grip to spread out the cars), limiting the cars in the field on this type of track, and requiring minimum levels of high speed oval experience from the entrants, etc.
And I predict they will try to figure out how to enclose the cockpit as well.
I guarantee you there will be changes. They could include; reduced downforce (to spread out the cars), power/speed limitations, different tires (less grip to spread out the cars), limiting the cars in the field on this type of track, and requiring minimum levels of high speed oval experience from the entrants, etc.
And I predict they will try to figure out how to enclose the cockpit as well.
Tires are a big deal. As fast as NASCAR cars go they limit tire width, height, sides and compounds. This makes a BIG difference.
Jim
10-18-2011, 11:58 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
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People go to professional racing events for a multitude of reasons including seeing wrecks. However, only a very small percentage of the population are interested in seeing drivers seriously injured or killed.
I've stated this before, but I view car racing as the modern day equivalent of chariot racing. There has always been great risk and great reward to the gladiators who rode their chariots to victory. The same can be said for modern "chariot" racers: They risk their lives everytime they go to "battle" but the rewards are HUGE.
If racing is to survive as a spectator sport (which means surviving at all on the professional level) then the spectators have to get what they are paying for: Drivers risking their lives doing something most of the spectators could never do, and then (in the vast majority of the cases) surviving.
It has been said that one is never more alive than after he has cheated death.
Second guessing and safety issues aside, the reality is that Wheldon died while doing something that gave him immeasurable pleasure and thrill.
We'll probably die in our sleep after pissing ourselves in the nursing home.
I've stated this before, but I view car racing as the modern day equivalent of chariot racing. There has always been great risk and great reward to the gladiators who rode their chariots to victory. The same can be said for modern "chariot" racers: They risk their lives everytime they go to "battle" but the rewards are HUGE.
If racing is to survive as a spectator sport (which means surviving at all on the professional level) then the spectators have to get what they are paying for: Drivers risking their lives doing something most of the spectators could never do, and then (in the vast majority of the cases) surviving.
It has been said that one is never more alive than after he has cheated death.
Second guessing and safety issues aside, the reality is that Wheldon died while doing something that gave him immeasurable pleasure and thrill.
We'll probably die in our sleep after pissing ourselves in the nursing home.
10-18-2011, 12:13 PM
#8
Safety Car
First, the $5 million prize thing is irrelevant. This keeps being brought up as if it had something to do with what happened. In the never-ending attempts by news media staff people to present themselves as experts on topics they know nothing about, they focus on anything that was "different" about XX event - whatever it might be - as a possible cause of the "bad thing that happened."
Second, Jody Scheckter is giving "hypocrite" a bad name. In the eight years (1970-1982) and 112 races that he was drove in F1 there were FIVE drivers killed. No dangerous ovals to deal with either. Did he cry that it was too dangerous and go home? Nope. After Scheckter's third F1 race Emerson Fittipaldi (then the current World Champion) said, ""This madman is a menace to himself and everybody else and does not belong in Formula 1." In the very next race he triggered an accident that took nearly a dozen cars out of the race and the Grand Prix Drivers' Association demanded his immediate banishment. Gee...
Third, if Sunday's crash hadn't had all the fire and smoke and "optics" (the latest media word) all of this "high moral ground" press pontificating wouldn't be happening. Ditto if the driver who was killed hadn't been a handsome, young family man. Just wait until a female driver is killed - the prettier she is more outrage there will be.
All American press perspectives about auto racing are now being filtered through "how does NASCAR do it?" baloney. (After Johnson's big headon into the wall last weekend, Kenny Wallace credited NASCAR's "innovation" (SAFER Barrier) with saving him from injury. Ignorance abounds
)
> After taking over the Indy series in March 2010, Mr. Bernard tried to
> make Indy racing more exciting, like its more popular cousin,
> Nascar.
Bzzzt. Indy racing on ovals was already more exciting than NASCAR. The TV ratings are a measure of eyeballs watching. not racing quality. Cripes.
> The Indy circuit packed more cars into each contest, for instance.
/SARCASM:ON Yes! For years dozens of teams had been knocking at the doors trying to get to race but they had been kept out by an evil cabal set on destroying the series! Now the willfully dangerous new guy threw open the gates and allowed anyone with a go-kart frame and better than 20/40 vision to race! /SARCASM:OFF
Car count has been a real problem for them over the past decade. Encouraging teams to find/spend the money needed to field an entry has been a big deal. Getting them to do so and then not allowing them to race would be counter productive to say the least - at least in the beginning.
> Mr. Bernard was recruited with a similar mandate to the Indy circuit.
> To steal fans back from Nascar, he brought the Indy circuit to tracks
> around the country that hadn't seen the low-slung cars for more than
> a decade.
To steal fans back from NASCAR??? Are racing fans limited to watching only one racing series? How about "to get NASCAR fans to also pay attention to IndyCar"?
They came back to tracks that used to be mainstay open wheel race tracks and they moved away from tracks that are NASCAR tracks (ISC - specifically) as the owners/promoters have a serious conflict of interest re: seeing a successful IndyCar resurgence. I'm not sure what point is trying to be made by the "back to old open wheel tracks" thing, anyway. Is that supposed to be a negative thing?
Any "reporting" from the Wall Street Journal about auto racing is, well... I seriously doubt that anyone there has clue #1. "But we need to say something about this since all the other know-nothings are doing so!"
Yeesh.
Edit:
Just read this from Robin Miller (someone who DOES have a clue...)
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-oval-madness/
Z//
Second, Jody Scheckter is giving "hypocrite" a bad name. In the eight years (1970-1982) and 112 races that he was drove in F1 there were FIVE drivers killed. No dangerous ovals to deal with either. Did he cry that it was too dangerous and go home? Nope. After Scheckter's third F1 race Emerson Fittipaldi (then the current World Champion) said, ""This madman is a menace to himself and everybody else and does not belong in Formula 1." In the very next race he triggered an accident that took nearly a dozen cars out of the race and the Grand Prix Drivers' Association demanded his immediate banishment. Gee...
Third, if Sunday's crash hadn't had all the fire and smoke and "optics" (the latest media word) all of this "high moral ground" press pontificating wouldn't be happening. Ditto if the driver who was killed hadn't been a handsome, young family man. Just wait until a female driver is killed - the prettier she is more outrage there will be.
All American press perspectives about auto racing are now being filtered through "how does NASCAR do it?" baloney. (After Johnson's big headon into the wall last weekend, Kenny Wallace credited NASCAR's "innovation" (SAFER Barrier) with saving him from injury. Ignorance abounds
)> After taking over the Indy series in March 2010, Mr. Bernard tried to
> make Indy racing more exciting, like its more popular cousin,
> Nascar.
Bzzzt. Indy racing on ovals was already more exciting than NASCAR. The TV ratings are a measure of eyeballs watching. not racing quality. Cripes.
> The Indy circuit packed more cars into each contest, for instance.
/SARCASM:ON Yes! For years dozens of teams had been knocking at the doors trying to get to race but they had been kept out by an evil cabal set on destroying the series! Now the willfully dangerous new guy threw open the gates and allowed anyone with a go-kart frame and better than 20/40 vision to race! /SARCASM:OFF
Car count has been a real problem for them over the past decade. Encouraging teams to find/spend the money needed to field an entry has been a big deal. Getting them to do so and then not allowing them to race would be counter productive to say the least - at least in the beginning.
> Mr. Bernard was recruited with a similar mandate to the Indy circuit.
> To steal fans back from Nascar, he brought the Indy circuit to tracks
> around the country that hadn't seen the low-slung cars for more than
> a decade.
To steal fans back from NASCAR??? Are racing fans limited to watching only one racing series? How about "to get NASCAR fans to also pay attention to IndyCar"?
They came back to tracks that used to be mainstay open wheel race tracks and they moved away from tracks that are NASCAR tracks (ISC - specifically) as the owners/promoters have a serious conflict of interest re: seeing a successful IndyCar resurgence. I'm not sure what point is trying to be made by the "back to old open wheel tracks" thing, anyway. Is that supposed to be a negative thing?
Any "reporting" from the Wall Street Journal about auto racing is, well...
I seriously doubt that anyone there has clue #1. "But we need to say something about this since all the other know-nothings are doing so!"Yeesh.
Edit:
Just read this from Robin Miller (someone who DOES have a clue...)
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-oval-madness/
Z//
Last edited by Zoxxo; 10-18-2011 at 12:22 PM.
10-18-2011, 12:39 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
The reason you don't run only on road racing is that you can't make enough money at it. Taking TV coverage out of it, oval racing appeals to the spectators much more so than road racing, if only because you can see most of the competition.
IMO Indycar needs to reduce lateral grip (aero, tires, or both), as Mr. Ogilvie suggests. I don't like the idea of reduced power, because that just packs them up as everyone hits terminal velocity.
RIP Dan, and virtual hugs to his wife, Susie, and their 2 kids, Sebastian and Oliver.
Have a good one,
Mike
10-18-2011, 01:05 PM
#10
Safety Car
10-18-2011, 01:27 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Jim
10-18-2011, 01:53 PM
#12
Safety Car
The thing to do is more power, less downforce, and more drag. That way the drivers can DRIVE the cars while having to slow down for the corners. Speed differentiation is the key - allow the cars to rapidly get spread out so that pack racing goes away (or is minimized.) Restrictor plate racing is precisely what causes wrecks like these. See "the big one" that occurs at pretty much *every* NASCAR restrictor plate race. In fact, it's pretty much expected. The IndyCar crash on Sunday was exactly that - an open wheel "big one" precipitated by pack racing.
Speed is not the enemy. It's touching at speed.
Z//
10-18-2011, 02:21 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Then with the open wheel civil war IRL never had the spare resources to come up with a newer configuration. Once the two sides "merged" then the focus shifted. Sadly not soon enough.
I was at the original IRL races at Texas, and honestly they got fairly spread out. As the teams matured the IRL formula they got tighter and tighter, until in '02 Kenny Brack had his accident. After that race I said "no more", because of the risk to the fans (if that accident had happened going into turn 1 instead of turn 3 IRL would probably have folded in the aftermath). Since then I've watched from my TV and held my breath.
IMO Randy Bernard is innocent in this tragedy (I don't think the $5M promotion made any difference whatsoever).
Have a good one,
Mike
10-18-2011, 03:05 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Because it stacks the cars up and makes them very equal. If they had a tire width limit like NASCAR at say 9"-10" the speeds would come way down. Tire compound can also make a big difference. Try running Goodyear 240's against 600's. The 240's don't last like the 600's but they sure stick a ton better.
Jim
Jim
Think I heard once this year that on the high speed ovals the Indy cars were making 4500 lbs of downforce. It staggers the mind.
Last edited by Everett Ogilvie; 10-18-2011 at 04:44 PM.
10-18-2011, 05:55 PM
#16
Tech Contributor
Travis,
This is probably the topic for a separate thread, but IndyCar has already tried your suggestion. For a few wonderful years, until last year, the old F1 Grand Prix course here in Watkins Glen became one of the stops on their championship circuit. We were ecstatic! After an absence of two-and-one-half decades, REAL, professional formula car racing had returned to The Glen. We did not care that it was only because the owners had closed down Nazareth Speedway in Pennsylvania - that was immaterial.
The cars and drivers really delivered one hell of a show, shattering the old all-time lap record their first time on a real road course! I was expecting it to be pretty damn good --- it was spectacular!! For the first couple of years, it looked like it was going to work. There was good attendance, and tremendous support from vendors and sponsors. The drivers and teams were wonderful. My son and I spent hours in the garage, mostly asking questions. Unlike the Formula One “celebrities”, these guys were accessible, and most looked like they were having a great time.
But, as I have said many times before, the American public (in general) doesn’t “get” formula cars. They don’t relate to them, they do not understand them, and they don’t like them. In many cases, it is probably as simple as being able to identify with something that looks like a Monte Carlo; and not being able to identify with a Dallara. Then, to make matters worse, one adds the complexity of a road course, where spectators can see only a small part of the track at a time, and the short attention span looses all interest.
So, when they decided NOT to visit The Glen in the summer of 2011, it was sad, but it was no surprise. For the last few years, we had seen the grandstands become more and more vacant. Vendor’s Row was not nearly as crowded, the sponsor tents were half-empty. The uniqueness had worn off, and our American public had again lost interest.
Ed
10-18-2011, 06:48 PM
#17
They usually run 20-22 cars, but 34 Indycars on any oval track is nuts.
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John
10-18-2011, 08:09 PM
#19
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 1999
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CI 4-5-6-7 Veteran
Next year is a majority road/street courses.
Indy car was built on majority ovals, but flat ovals like Indy, New Hampshire, Phoenix, Milwaukee(sp?). 1.5m cookie cutter, high banked NASCAR tracks don't work.
The catch fence doesn't work. What the answer is I don't know, but the doctors and engineers in Indy car have given us the HANS and SAFER barriers, I bet they are working on how to fix the fence right now.
Indy car was built on majority ovals, but flat ovals like Indy, New Hampshire, Phoenix, Milwaukee(sp?). 1.5m cookie cutter, high banked NASCAR tracks don't work.
The catch fence doesn't work. What the answer is I don't know, but the doctors and engineers in Indy car have given us the HANS and SAFER barriers, I bet they are working on how to fix the fence right now.
10-18-2011, 08:22 PM
#20
Instructor
Going back to bias ply tires and raising the cars up will make a better race to watch. They can have all the power they want because they will have to let up in the turns