raam

I bought a 95 M3 nicely setup as a father and son project, $15k total budget planned, street, HPDE, maybe some TT events, Solo for my wife and son and daughters when they visit. My son is a BMW nut so I decided to build up one a bit with him.

$60k+ and climbing, more hours than I can even count up, I could of built 3 Vettes in the time this has taken and certainly a very fast and reliable one for that kind of money if spent carefully.....

I will never do a full tilt unibody car again, period, I spent at least $3k on tools alone do deal with some of the work and paying labor to get some done as the fumes were killing us.....I have seldom paid for any labor in my entire 44 years of modding cars and trucks.

I am however keeping my eye out on a fully built spare chassis, just in case ever needed. Once I am done playing with this thing, just HPDE and TT events around NA for the next year or two, I will sell, trade off, whatever and go tube frame or Vette if I want a nother track car.

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This car will be very fast and easy to drive, making sure of that, reliable as well and I will have my fun but will be constantly concerned with bending the chassis, Vettes are EASY to fix when bent compared to something like this.

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So, if ever tempted to get going on a unibody car and if like me, never seem to know when to stop, reconsider, stick with something far easier to build.

Sincerely
Rick

sebdavid

How in the world did you spend so much money on an E36? What was the problem?

Rob31

In most cases the Beemer is less work when on a frame rack than a C5 . A C5 -6 is a huge hassle to tie it down on a Caroliner or Cheif . The last C5 I did the oem hood fit like sox on a rooster .
On the flip side Bmws are way over engineered . It will blow your mind how complicated a friggin door handle can be made .
Just did a 745 Simple but way stupid .I have a X1 in the shop now , cant wait
My point being unibody cars arent that bad .

raam

I have a way of going nuts on a build, my track Vette started with a $50k budget and at $80k, no paint, no built engine(planned on an LS7), it would of been over $120k when done but done right, one end to the other.

M3 build:

Car, clean low mileage M3, $8k
So far over $13k in suspension
Brakes, have not bought the rears yet, spent $3k on fronts including ducts, etc..
Body parts, nose, hood, flares, fenders, trunk, CF roof panel, lexan, $4k
Wheels, $4.5k (for 3 sets, 18x10.5 all corners)
CF wing, undertray, mirrors, around $3k
Seat, harness, nets, cage padding, $2.5k, so far
Cage materials, $1k
Engine(junkyard but opened up and taken care of), headers, intake, exhaust, tune, etc.....$15k (replacement engines are $3-4k
Electric PS and water pump, pulleys, race alt, oil cooler, tanks, radiator, fan, $2.5k, so far
Diff, custom built, ramped, $1.5k used as a temp then a spare
Fuel pumps, wiring, gauges, circuit breakers, etc....$1,500 so far
Labor for stripping the junk off, seam welding, cage work, so far, $4k

$63.5k and counting

Parts sold, around $6k so far, not much left I can get anything out of though but I got a clean E36 M3 chassis cheap that way.

Invested so far, $57.5k with parts sold.

Not in above totals:
Tires
OS Giken diff, $3.5k
Rear brakes, $2.5k
I still need a digital dash and data logger, $2+k more to spend)
Paint
Spare parts

Building a well done race car is just EXPENSIVE!

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I can see on a rack straightening a Vette might be tough but if the body is all setup to come off easily you can chop out major frame sections and weld in straight ones quite easily compared to doing the same on a unibody(all the junk you have to clean off is the biggest headache by far, then seam welding, etc........)

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Body work is my least favorite part of all this, under body work on a BMW is a nightmare, more junk sprayed, spread, squeezed into every nook and cranny imaginable.

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Wiring, enough wire in a BMW for a Battleship, unbelieable, must be some kind of job security deal as it is mind blowing how much they have in them.

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They are built like a tank though, very solid construction but that also meant cutting out a ton of metal to get the weight down.

With a very extensive cage I expect to end up with a weight of around 2300 lbs.

With just bolt ons and a good tune I know of 380 HP at the crank on an engine dyno, race fuel, stand alone tune, etc....410 with good cams, more than enough power so I am running stock cams and a mild tune for pump fuel to save on costs as not trying to win a championship, just having fun.


Rick

fatbillybob

Well then you could have bought a sorted spec E30 for 10K and called it a day. I bet a just having fun bunch of family members with that hot M3 will probably run slower times than the specE30. What is the point except it is way cool and you can be my dad. I'd like someone to build me a shiny new ST2 C6LS3

raam

I need to clarify one major issue, the car is for me now, they will have to get their own

Once we are done touring around I will put together a $10k car for the family, this one is far to much for them, probably for me as well!

Rick

PushinTheLimit

You could buy a C5 like mine for mid $20k and go run ST2. or ST3 and have lots of fun. Add on some aero and go have fun.

bosco022

Wow, Rick for 20K or so you could have bought a really good, used GTA car and smoked the BMW. If you knock the whole front clip off you can fix it for a couple grand.

The GTA track record at Sebring is 2:14, at Road Atlanta 1:28, at Daytona 1:57. Good, well prepared, well driven M3's are far off these times. These are similar time to the best STO cars.

Anyway, wish you well with it.

From V8 StockCar.com

Sebring Long:
V8GT1: Tony Ave Beebe Racing Mustang 2:03.225 2/12/12
V8GT2: Doug Wilson BMW M3 2:19.411
V8SPO: Charles Wicht SWT Monte Carlo 2.10.956 2/23/08
V8GTA: Jay Marshall Impala 2:14.138

Note: Doug Wilson's M3 was an expensive build and well driven by Doug, car was totaled at PBIR a couple years ago.

Road Atlanta:
V8GT1: Simon Gregg Corvette 1:22.777 11/5/11
V8GT2: Jeff Dernehl Mazda RX7 1:28.139 11/5/11
V8SPO : Larry Hoopaugh Cup Monte Carlo 1:27.217 7/17/10
V8GTA: Bob Stretch ASA Monte Carlo 1:28.444 11/06/09

Daytona:
V8GT1: Tommy Riggins Falcon 1:47.908 8/6/11
V8GT2 : Derek Whitis Porsche 1:57.065 8/6/11
V8SPO : Paul Breehne Fusion 1:54.175 8/7/11
V8GTA : Tony Amico Howe Monte Carlo 1:58.096 8/8/09 (SCCA record Cam Lawrence 1:57)

raam

I f'in know, too late to turn around now or I would, damn well I would!

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I love those Falcons, glad to see one, with a superb driver of course, is so stinking fast. I think they are some of the coolest cars ever built, really, nearly get me going as much as the GT40's back in the day

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Once I get this car finished and sorted and run it a few times I am seriously considering putting it up for adoption (trade, simpler car and a street car for my wife, something fun for her as she is so incredibly good to me, I could never of imagined I would end up with the best woman I ever met, me, really???

I will have a very limited weight and space allowance in the trailer we are looking into as we are going full time RV and need to be comfortable, the lady, me and our Akita and Irish Wolfhound. I will check some specs on those cars(LS would help a bit, seems most I have seen run iron blocks)

Thanks!
Rick

sebdavid

Wow, you really went to town! I am definitely interested in any information you gather on going full-time RVing as I'm thinking about it too. And definitely keep us up to date on that gem you're building!

rithsleeper

How could you spend 4.5k on rims? On one end im sorry you are in so deep but on the other when you slap prices like those up it seems you are a real impulse buyer... i think we need some pics of this epic m3 as it sits...

rfn026

Your big mistake was to actually keep track of your expenses. You never want to keep a record of these builds. It's too depressing. They could also become evidence in any family dispute.

Better to just say "I don't know".

Richard Newton
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sperkins

I just can't believe you put $15k into a junkyard motor.

PA Z06

Sounds like a cool project, would love to see pics

Canam

Oh it can easily happen to even experienced guys and I feel your pain. Three years ago we got a great deal on a Tiburon Super Touring car with a fresh 240WHP engine. What a night mare that turned out to be. The engine builder had put the scrapper rings in upside down. Oil everywhere all the time and the motor blew up. He would not honour the bad build. 10 grand for a rebuild. I got someone else to do it. I should have stuffed an LS3 in it. Hell, you can get an LS3488 for 7K into your driveway with the ECU!!
I never did get the damn thing to turn and I tried everything at a lot of cost. Tons of lost money later I said screw this, sold it, and bought a built ST2 C4. This year it has been dead nuts reliable with 4 podiums and an almost win except I boiled the brake fluid with 2 laps to go while in the lead. If I blow the motor I can get a 4 bolt short block for 600 bucks. Calipers are 90 bucks. I tune the car with a screwdriver, no 2k ECU. Sometimes the old ways were the best ways. Sorry for your loss. Been there.

raam

A bit of clarification

1) $4.5k was for three sets of wheels, 18x10.5 all around, under 21 lbs each and very strong.

2) Engine was $3k, usually more like $4k, the rest is in headers, intake, exhaust, etc.....and stand alone computer, replacement cost for the engine will be $3-4k, one guy has won 2 out of the last 4 championships on a junk yard engine that has been in the car the whole time making 410 HP. Some guys spend $20-30k on less power, less reliable and that is just the engine.

3) I did not keep track of them until yesterday, top of my head numbers, I knew it had gotten up there, even more than I thought!

4) I forgot the 5.5" clutch, 3-way floor pedals, fire system, accusump, add another $3.5k or so.

5) CAE shifter, most precise and beautifully crafted shifter I have ever seen, $800, ouch! But great to help prevent a money shift, the S54 does not like to go beyond 8,500 RPM.

5) I have a build thread on the BMW forum but have not updated pictures yet, I might need a flame suite on when the cage progress is shown, getting pretty nuts with it, probably overkill, I will put some up before long. Right now it just shows a gutted car on a rotisserie.

6) I sold an LS6 so I would stop being tempted to stuff it into the BMW as I did not want that much power, it made 390 WHP with a stock cam, headers, mild tune. It would put the car into classes that it could not compete in, wrong chassis, BIG bucks nuts cars in the class. I had a race harness, ECU and EFI Live for tuning. I nearly put that engine in the back seat of a fully built and quite fast Scion we had for years. I also bought an 02 Miata chassis for it at one time. I should of done something with the LS6 but to late now.

This car is going to be very fast once sorted out, maybe with a better driver than I am in it on occasion to see just what it can do. Maintenance cost once done is quite reasonable.

-Engine, very reliable but only $3-4k to replace
-Trans, stock is just fine, $300 to replace, I have a spare
-Brake pads, around $250 for all 4 corners and last well
-Brake rotors, fronts, $200 eash and last exceptionally well
-Clutch, I sold one to a member here, he raced on it 2.5 years so far
-Shock rebuild, $800 for all four corners, annual at the most
-Wheel bearings, less than $400 for all four corners and reliable
-Fluids, we all spend about the same if done right
-Splitters, home made, less than $50
-Tires, unless I start running for some championship, not likely, used from John Berget, bought many there, $400 shipped a set, very fresh take offs, some only scrubbed in. I will check the sellers here as well.
-Diff, 3 qt finned cover(add another $600 to the total), temp gauge, will add a cooler if needed, not likely, should last a couple of seasons between rebuilds which are under $1k.

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Build cost was pretty steep but operational costs are not that bad. I am going to run a pump gas tune(20% race fuel for insurance) as I develop the setup. The little 3.2 puts out quite impressive numbers and is basically a race engine inside, Ti rods, individual throttle bodies, only a couple of weaknesses, rod bearings need replaced, ARP studs, weld the oil pump nut on, good to go racing.

My only fear is stuffing it badly, I would probably break down and cry after all this work. That is why I am also looking for a well built chassis for a spare. If I had known I was going this nuts I would of bought one that was a killer deal last year, cage alone was worth a small fortune, built by a mechanical engineer, Epoxy paint and primer....I want to find a spare like that!

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This car is totally funded by selling off my old race car, misc parts, a huge stack of audio gear I collected over the years, anything and everything I can live without as I simplify my life. I had 2 race cars, another in storage, 4 trailers, 2 trucks, the Vette, 4 runner, tons and tons of parts and audio gear....now just the new dually, open deck aluminum trailer, v8 4runner which might get sold but we love it, one race car, one big trailer which is one hell of a lot for somebody that grew up on welfare!

Rick

raam

Canam,
I know the feeling buddy, I bought a race car from the owners of a NASA region, they did not have it long and went back to a Porsche. I am sure they did not know of the hidden frame damage that was not in the SCCA(T1 C5Z) nor NASA log books. Front clip done, poorly but well hidden and not able to tell when I inspected the car on a lift. Talk about pissed when I found out when it was too late.

Tore it down, $900 of rack time, it was very straight so I gusseted it very very well and tied the cage into it past the damage and then triangulated the steel firewall/footwells I built into it. It became far stronger than it ever was stock when I was done but it took a great deal of work and my time is quite valuable.

I looked all over the country for a good used car I could make some mods to and go have fun, this seemed to be the best "deal" as it was already being converted to ST2 and had many new parts like Motons, crate LS6, new seat, harness, fire system, etc....

Oh, after years of racing, when I found I could not drive it because I kept hitting my head on the cage, tore out the dash, no dash bar(may not of been required), lower A pillar bars had kinks in them, not full perimeter welded, I cut the cage out. None of the multiple joint connections were fully welded except on the outside, big gaps in all joints......

I would never buy a used race car or chassis unless they had very extensive build picks showing all those details, period, with the exception of built by a shop with an impeccable history of doing things right.

Rick

z06801

Veskco and Byron Smith have a bunch of well sorted and built BMWs for sell out at Miller one is a beautiful E36 M3 with a euro motor for somewhere in the mid 30's, He would be a good person to talk to about building these cars.

raam

I know who they are buddy, I will be talking to them when the time comes

Do you have any links to the cars for sale? I searched a bit but did not find anything.

I have not been to the track in quite some time but recall one black M3 running up with the very fast cars and was told it was not really that built compared to what I am doing. I will need some help sorting this car out, it has far more suspension adjustments as well as aero than anything I have ever done.

Thanks
Rick

Canam

That car we had was buggering fast in a straight line. 240HP at 2380 pounds said so. With the heavy V6 over and ahead of the front axle it just wasn't going to turn unless the engine was moved back and down into the chassis. The rear end was way too planted also even with a 30 mm swaybar. The guy that bought the thing removed the rear wing altogether and it did handle better. Of course BMW's are great handling out of the box like a Vette, but most of my point is about costs. We shattered a Fidanza flywheel which took out the clutch and cost 2 grand to replace. Its 8 hours because the dumbass engine is in sideways and has to come out. Geez.

Having a V8 with the trans behind it and driving the rear wheels is just so easy to work on, roomy, and cheap. I was never a fan of non north american iron but we tried and never again. Way to much work and way to expensive, and that's if you can get the parts. If not you have to make them.

Having said all that, I did drive my partners 1950 pound E30 with a stock M engine in it last year. It was extremely fast, reliable, and handled on rails with continentals on it.

Now I need to get another 200 pounds out of my C4. Where's that lexan.............