Bedouin

Gents, I've researched catch cans, & after seeing the pool of oil in my intake manifold, it's time to buy.

What's your preference for catch cans in terms of function, quality, & clean install? I'm leaning toward Elite Engineering, but am open to buying a used CC too.

My '12 GS LS3 is a dry-sump, so I assume the LS7 application is what I'll need.

taken19

I posted in the Tech section, but the Elite Engineering is a great choice. The LS3 application comes with a spacer, but I didn't end up using it for my dry sump LS3.

waddisme

When I was researching mine, seemed like the Rev Extreme cc was the mac daddy of cans. They have differents setups for whatever app you would need. Now that I have my intake off for ac repair, I am going to cap off the intake plug on the manifold and just run the output of the cc to a breather. Prob not legal, but zero chance of oil getting into intake. It is about 50/50 on whether the smell is an issue. I was disappointed at the oily film in the runners in my heads when I removed the intake.

victorf

I prefer the take apart feature to verify cleanliness + couple more mods to enhance functional efficiency, here are a few photos to demonstrate:

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/P1010344.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/P1010334.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/P1010354.jpg

Bear in mind, there exist no best out there, some rating of best is subjective, all have draw backs.

But having one is better than none IMO.

wjnjr

Here's a thread where a guy tests several popular catch cans to see how well they work:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...an-system.html

Hope this helps

victorf

^^Yep, I was all over that post with an opened mind to inquire.

Clearly demonstrated no "best" out there at this point in time.

Bottom line is that you are satisfied with what you have.

wjnjr

Did you make those parts? That's some nice work. What does this do?

victorf

It is an heat sink, function as a radiator. Like fins on two stroke engine external to radiate heat.

Bedouin

Damn that's some nice billet.

Rev Xtreme

Any can can be tested for its effectiveness very easily and cheaply. At any autoparts store, buy ($10 app) a clear glass inline fuel filter and install it between any cans outlet and the IM vacuum port. You will see in 100 miles or so almost all cans will still let enough oil through to saturate the filter showing how effective or ineffective any can is, and easy to judge by how quickly and how much it saturates. Try any other can no matter what the claim, then try the RX can and see for yourself. No need to blindly believe marketing claims, it is that simple.



And for those that are not already convinced on the misinformation, or want to see how cans do or dont work (ALL cans, even a beer can w/2 fittings popped in will catch some oil due to condensation, but most let as much or more through into the intake air charge as they catch:

As for cans, here are the most common you will see and a detailed description on how they work, (and dont work).

We'll start with some of most common ebay/made in china ineffective cans that are really no more than a "empty beer can":



This one is very common and is generally bought from ebay, but several company also brand it. Comes with fittings, a universal braket, sight tube to see when it needs to emptied:


And the inside......notice not only is it completely an empty can, but the fittings are just punched in with metal filings hanging:



This is another Ebay/China cheapo. Looks nice, ends are milled from billet and the main body extruded aluminum. This can is very common and is seen in many colors and with over 20 companies branding it as "their own design". Search on ebay to see for yourself:


And as you can see, allthough it is a good size, and looks nice, just an empty can again. The majority of all vapors enter and do a quick U turn and exit:



So again, no different than an empty "jumbo" beer can.


And now to another variation of ebay/china. Sight windows and can be had in several colors or a carbon fiber wrap:



Now the inside:

Bonded together with plastic resin...this insulates it greatly reducing the ability to condense oil vapors....and since it relies on the plastic to seal it this one had a good sized vacuum leak where it didnt get coated, and time will tell if this resin delaminates over time from the fuel/oil vapors. It also has what the instructions describe as a "Robber Strip".....not sure what that is:



Notice, if they would have designed it so the inlet tube protruded through the screen, it would actually have a bit better effectiveness, but since it terminates in the top the majority of the vapors just do a quick U turn back out.


Now on to one made in the USA, quality of the machining is top notch, excellent appearance, solid bracket. You will see dozens of variations of this with the appearance slightly different on the top and some cary very well known brands:



Now look closely at the internal design. There is no specified inlet or outlet, and when you unscrew it you see the vapors enter through one fitting, travel through coalscing media (so far so good) but it just U turns into the outlet side into more coalscing material which acts the same way as taking a wet wash cloth and holding it to your mouth and sucking on it...the liquid pull right through. So even though it looks awesome, and the machining is top notch, since it is so small the flow never slows enough to allow most droplets to fall out of suspension so they suck right into the other side and out the outlet.




A can has to be large enough so the velocity, or the flow speed through the can slows enough for the condensed droplets to fall out of suspension and not carried through (take a straw and drip a small amount of water in a saucer, suck on the straw and it will draw the liquid up completely...similar to the dentist suction tube, now take a piece of garden hose and try the same....you wont get any, or almost no liquid due to the internal volumn of the hose/straw/container used as an oil separator.

Let me add in the home air compressor separators many use:


These will catch oil, but will saturate in a few hundred miles allowing all oil to pull through after it reaches saturation. As this one shows, this company adds a hose to the drain to return the contaminated oil to the crankcase reintroducing the damaging combustion byproducts into the engine oil accelerating wear and damage. All in not understanding all the purposes and functions of todays PCV systems.



Now on to the ones that work. Starting with the one below (has several others that brand this unit). As you can see, the oil enters the top, passes through a small chamber with coalescing material that does a good job of separating the oil and as the flow pulls through, the larger droplets fall into the bottom for collection and only the smallesr ones get pulled through. Mainly because the outlet is only 1" from the droplets dripping out of the chamber as the speed of the flow will pull a small amount through. This is a very good functioning can and allows only 20% or so of pull through and is one we endorse as worth using on most NA applications, but any kind of FI or big cube build and it will allow even more pull through. Nice looking, durable, and functional for the reasons listed:


On to the next 2 that are excellent in function and quality. The Elite and the AMW. Both are slightly different in appearance, but both use the same basic very effective design internally. Even though from the outside they may look similar to the one with so many brands that does not work well, these work excellent:


First the Elite:




Look above closeley. The coalescing chamber is quite large and is very effective in trapping the oil from suspension and all but the smallest drops fall to the bottom where they are trapped to drain later. The outlet barb is app 2" from the bottom of the coalscing chamber so less chane for pull through. Great for NA and mild top mount SC applications. Excellent can we also endorse.


The AMW:



A bit different in appearance, but using the same internal principal of the Elite.....an excellent can that we also endorse.



These last 3 I want to point out are direct competitors of RX but are excellent (some of the ONLY ones worth purchasing out of the hundreds to choose from) and have our endorsement. Well worth buying and installing to prevent the issues described throughout this thread.



Now the RX can. Several things in this design are unlike any other on the market. The distance the oil laden fumes travel from entering, through 3 different chambers which each have a function, is over 9" so pull through from droplets falling to the bottom for collection is near impossible. It also is nearly 1 qt of internal volume (standard can, Monster is nearly 2 quarts) so the velocity, or speed of the flow can slow enough for even the smallest of droplets to fall out of suspension:




Follow the pictures below of a disected RX can. The vapors first enter the top center and travel down the dispersion tube that distributes the vapors evenly into the large coalescing chamber where 90% plus of the oil is separated from the vapors and can drop into the collection and condensing chamber. This uses the temprature differential to condense any oil still suspended into large enough drops that then collect on the outer cooling surface and drop to the bottom for collection. Then the vapors have to travel past a disc baffel into the separate outlet chamber where they have one final cooling step to allow any trace oil to condense befor exiting through a flow controlling checkvalve that prevents any back flow at WOT when intake vacuum is at its lowest level and also prevents the vapors from flowing through to fast.

The oil laden vapors at no time mix with crankcase vapors already cleaned as they exit. Every other design has points where the dirty, and cleaned vapors mingle so there is no way to separate 100% of the oil as some of the entering vapors are always mixing with the exiting vapors.




Now the Saikou Micchi is also a very effective functioning can but I dont have time to post all out there, but anyone that has visited in person has seen the examples of both. It cathces probably 90% plus in most applications.

Now,The RX dual valve (Monster can over 10# boost) is the ONLY can system on the market currently that provides proper crankcase evac and oil separation in both boost and non-boost operation. Every other application is only functional during non-boost with a turbo or centri blower (any system that pressurizes the intake manifold):





All we source, do a several hundred mile drive with a clear glass inline checkvalve installed between the can and the intake manifold vacuum barb and over this same drive route, with the same car (we know its consumption), and then judge the amount that pulled through and was caught in the clear glass filter. With the average empty/ebay/china can the filter is saturated in 50-100 miles beyound capacity showing 50-80% plus of the oil travels right through into the intake air charge.



The poor designed nice looking ones work a bit better, but still pull through 30% plus where the ones we endorse allow less than 10% pull through to under 5% which is excellent in eliminating most of the issues caused by oil ingestion into the intake air charge.



And more specific question, ask & I'll do my best to answer each accurately.



Top pics? Elite, AMW, Saikou Micchi and RX. There are a few other we have seen advertised that look like they will also be excellent in function, but we have yet to purchase, test, and dissect.

Also, the RX dual valve (Monster can for over 10# boost) is the ONLY catchcan system on the market that provides proper crankcase evacuation during both boost and non-boost operation. Every other one provides no oil separation/proper evacuation during boost:

Rev Xtreme

Here is a GM blower after 16k miles with the RX can from nearly day one:



Now look at a maggie intercooler after 16k miles w/out one:





The intercooler has already lost much of its heat transfer ability with the varnish build up, and also the flow through is being restricted.

The blower rotors are finely balanced and since the deposits dont form evenlu, they are thrown off balance and bearing life is shortend as well.

victorf

Few observation on the subject - but only focusing on unit machined from solid bar stock:

1. I do like the fine machine work from solid bar stock on both EE and AMW, as well as the take a part feature to verified cleanliness and avoid build up of varnish - that can only worsen over time. EE can has no drain hole to cause future leak - that is an additional +.

2. EE by nature of design, the inlet coalescing chamber housing flange acts as an baffle, outgoing vapor has to go through that flange, then into narrow passage before exit - thats a +. AMW doesn't have any flange baffle.

3. AMW has anti-creep up grooves on inside wall of reservoir, that is a +.

4. Distance between inlet/outlet of EE/AMW are too close to be effective - although EE has the advantage of the coalescing chamber housing flange to interrupt and slow down the existing flow.

5. Both EE/AMW coalescing chamber housing are too far off the bottom of the reservoir, thus not taking advantage on the available space to enhance the distance between inlet/outlet and at the same time, additional material, providing surface area to increase effectiveness of the condensation process of separate oil from blow bys.

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With two simple internal (thin wall coalescing chamber housing extension and bored reservoir internal anti-creep up grooves) modification, I believe it has resolved and improved the above given flaws with my EE's functionality:

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/P1010334.jpg

Additionally, I have worked on other external areas to isolate and eliminate direct engine heat conduction - to further enhance Catch Can's effectiveness.

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IMO. Just to show no catch can is the best - but having one, especially the take apart variety, which enable 100% clean up, to positively eliminate varnish build up - is better than without one.

Rev Xtreme

As for functionality in stopping any oil ingestion I would disagree, but taking all the features you have covered again, well done. It would be nice to see more actually understand all of this as you do...and almost NO tuner shops have a good grasp on function and importance of the crankcase evac system as most (no matter how big of a name) just vent excess pressure and break the systems ability to evacuate the damaging combustion byproducts out while still in a suspended state before the engine cools after shut down, and to see one of the biggest names in modern muscle car performance and top mount super charger installations make statements such as "the oil ingestion is good for a super charger so we do not believe in using a cathcan" just defies any logic, yet they have state of the art CNC machines, do awesome work in every other way, and build engines & tune with the best

As for the RX can, at 20-30K miles simply spray a can of break clean in the inlet and shake for a few minutes and the entire insides will be cleaned of varnish and deposits including the coalescing material, but I do agree that if it coul be opened like the EE or AMW it would be a plus.....but that will add app $30 each to the cost to manufacture, so there ls the rub. Cost is also where most base their decision to buy and thats why you see so many of these empty ebay/china cans on $50-100k cars out there.

victorf, you have my respect for the knowledge and understanding of all this....your one of the rare few that get it. My hats off to you.

victorf

Very nice set of pictorial display.

In Nuclear Power Standards - unless it is 100% visually verifiable, then anything else is a compromise in terms of cleanliness.

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The photos on Maggie are nasty, imagine Maggie is contained by welding covers shut, induce Brake Clean into internal thru inlet, sloshing Brake Clean around, pour it out at outlet and call it a day.

Now, the aftermath is unverifiable internal cleanliness. Compounding the situation, now there will be residual Brake Clean that remains in all those cracks and crevices - which will eventually get sucked into engine internal.

Not a pretty picture.

---

From that above scenario, which pretty much equate to cleaning a welded shut Catch Can with Brake Clean to address cleanliness control.

I disagree using Brake Clean will be able to clean the internal. Sorry.

Thus why every Catch Can is a compromise.

Rev Xtreme

Can't argue with that.

Do you think the market will bear the extra cost to machine these so they can be unscrewed for cleaning? In the past when we did polls it was resounding no......but were willing to do it if the price can be accepted.

victorf

Top shelf machine product without compromise can be expensive but some will pay for it. If I don't have the capability, I certainly will pay for it.

High quality with an amazing price such as the shifter by MGW is an exception.

My best wishes for your product line.

Bedouin

These are really informative posts guys..totally clarifies the subject..thank you!!

Random84

Bump for a great thread.

As for the screw/unscrew issue on the cans... I see it two ways:

A: an extra $30 for a can is meaningless over the life of the $50-80K car it goes on. But Rx is correct, people are impulsive and generally cheap so he's already losing business to the cheaper "good enough" cans.

B: if cleaning the inside of a fully-functional can is really a problem, then buy another one in 5 years (if you still actually have the car). It's like not driving the car because you'll eventually get creases in the seat covers.... stuff happens.

nolimits

Agree, just put one in with remote breather for LS7 NA 650 ish hp w/ARE system this week, cleaned up the raw oil mist coming out the exhaust, sticking to the rear bumper. Wasn't an issue on street but at track events I had a lot getting thru the intake getting out the back. I did the research too and the RX proved highly effective. Kudos RX.

Searya

Nolimits can you post up or pm me a picture of your setup. I have the same exact problem as you and want to buy he same setup.

Thanks!