Sebring27

Hi
I have been religously changing my brake fluid before every track event at Sebring.
I am now running track events at Willow Springs(BigWillow) and Chuckwalla.
The two latter tracjs are not hard on brakes at all,for instance BigWillow only has one hard braking corner. Is it really necessary to change the braje fluid before every event on these two tracks? I understand that at Sebring it is necessarywhere the track is hard on brakes.
Any advice from seasoned trackers would be much appreciated!
Many thanks

MarkDFW

Go with castrol SRF. Almost impossible to boil. Yes, it costs more, but you don't need to bleed all the time and shouldn't have to worry about a spongy peddle at a bad time. I ran 5 events without bleeding. Zero brake fade. I was boiling motul 600 every other track day. Castrol SRF. Trust me.

fcarga

Just bleed your brakes regularly.

StreetSpeed

SwitcH To SrF And Be Done With It.

Pardon THe Typing. STupid Phone.

RX-Ben

RBF 600 is fine. Just an occasionally bleed is necessary.

ZedO6

I bleed brake fluid before every event (just me I guess) and don't waste money on SRF. There are easier and more effective ways to address brake temps.

BTW, if you're not hard on the brakes at least twice a lap at Big Willow, you're leaving lots on the table. Turn 3-5 are hard braking turns and 5 is critical to setting up for fast lap times. However you are correct, as SoCal tracks go, Big Willow is easy on brakes, makes up for Buttonwillow and Laguna....

turbrorx7

SRF is absolutely excellent, but being a race fluid (just like racing motor oil) needs to be changed often if not every time. I guess you could get by bleeding after every event but it won't suffice.

trackboss

It's a good idea to bleed brakes regularly simply to assure that it is fresh and there is no air in the system. In addition, doing so gives the opportunity to look over the brake system and possibly catch any leaks or problems.

X25

Moreover, dirt might also find its way into your fluid, especially if/when the boots and seals get old. Bleeding every once in a while takes care of that contamination, too.

steven31371

Yeah, Big Willow is mostly two long straights....from 5 to 9 is effectively a no lift straight, immediately followed by 9 to 1.....it's most of the track....once I started treating 5-9 as a straight and setting up turn 5 accordingly I shed several seconds off my lap time, you have to brake hard and early on 5 then apex late at reduced speed to gun it out of five all the way till 9, (if you've got the stones to not lift at 120+mph entering 8 lol)

I have to brake pretty hard going into turn 1 as well, as I'm usually close to 140 MPH on that approach.


To the OP....do you have speed bleeders....makes it a no brainer to bleed the brakes before every event as it only takes about 15-20 minutes.

My car has 130,000 miles on it, with old seals and stuff, and its my Dailey driver, so the fluid is pretty dark by the time I get to the next track day, must be bled.

I bleed the clutch too, and do a mini ranger swap between sessions, wherein I suck out the fluid from the clutch reservoir and replace it between each season.

But again, mine is a high mileage C5 with power upgrades.

JerryTX

As soon as my pedal goes soft at all I don't hesitate to bleed the fluid at least from the calipers and pull that fluid out. I don't end up using more than half a bottle with this method but it ensures the calipers are dealing with fresher fluid from the reservoir and lines now residing in the caliper.

Sebring27

Thanks To All That have answered much appreciated !

0Xplosive Performance

For your info some data on the different and most commonly Racing fluids.

ATE Super Blue/TYP 200
Dry: 280°C (536°F)
Wet: 198°C (388°F)

Brembo LCF600
Dry: 316°C (601°F)
Wet: 204°C (399°F)

CASTROL SRF
Dry: 310°C (590°F)
Wet: 270°C (518°F)

MOTUL RBF600
Dry: 312°C (594°F)
Wet: 216°C (421°F)

Motul RBF660
Dry 325 °C (617 °F)
Wet 205 °C / 401 °F

Here are some things to look at

WET VS. DRY BOILING POINT
The term boiling point when used regarding brake fluid means the temperatures that brake fluid will begin to boil.

WET BOILING POINT
The minimum temperatures that brake fluids will begin to boil when the brake system contains 3% water by volume of the system.

DRY BOILING POINT
The temperatures that brake fluid will boil with no water present in the system.

THINGS TO REMEMBER
Brake fluids dry boiling point is more important then wet boiling point when used in a racing brake system.
Passenger cars very rarely will undergo a brake fluid change making the wet boiling point more important.
Racing brake system fluid is changed often and a system with fresh fluid will most likely not contain water.
Because of this, racers should be concerned with the dry boiling point.
Racing fluid exceeds DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 dry boiling point specifications.
Never use silicone based fluids in racing brake systems.
Using racing brake fluid will increase performance of the braking system.
Never reuse fluid. º Never mix types or brands of brake fluid.
Use smaller fluid containers that can be used quicker.
If fluid remains in container be sure to tightly seal and do not store for long periods of time.
Purge system (complete drain) and replace fluid often.
Immediately replace master cylinder reservoir cap following any maintenance.

MarkDFW

When I walk through the paddock almost every racer I see is using Castrol SRF. It costs 3 times as much as Motul 600 and they are glad to pay the price. I can boil Motul 600 in a day or two. 5 days of the same Castrol SRF and it is still golden.

Look at the difference in WET boiling point. Moisture WILL get in, the fluid will be considered WET, the WET point is what will matter, and the SRF won't boil.

I was running Motul 600 and couldn't understand why I kept boiling it until people told me the wet boiling point is what really matters. Serious racers I know (think 24 hours of Daytona) all told me Castrol SRF is the way to go. Liquid gold. I don't pay 3 times as much for it because I have money to burn.

My 2 cents.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Thoughts on brake fluids...

Sure data is nice and the stats typically do not lie.

SRF is one of the best fluids on the market and as far as most race teams are concerned probably the bench mark that everything else is judged by. Now the only issue comes with it, is that it can be hard to get during the season and it's price moves around almost as bad as gold unless you are buying cases of it. Biggest benefit...wet boiling point. The stuff almost rejects water.

Motul 600/AP/Brembo fluids are all very well suggested fluids and have been used in racing for years with no issues at all.

We have been using a new fluid, in addition to Motul 600 and SRF, over the last couple of years due to limited to supply in SRF.




http://www.lgmotorsports.com/product...oducts_id=2649

It has proven to be just as good as SRF as far as we can tell to this point. It was used in the Grand Am Corvette and the last two years in the Camaro W.C. cars.

Many of the ALMS teams are using Endless now and they do supply the Merc F1 team as well.

Like SRF it is not the cheapest fluid on the market but does perform much past expectations.





With all of this being said......
If you don't take care of your braking system it doesn't matter. If the system does not have proper cooling, you will far exceed the boiling point of almost any of these fluids not to mention damage the seals and calipers. If you do not bleed the brakes on a normal basis and keep it fresh...again it can boil way sooner than expected. A good routine to get into would be to bleed the system prior to each event. Some brake system may need to be done even during the weekend event.

Zenak

If you are boiling that often, then i suggest you start making some steps to improve cooling. HAve you tried all the steps in here:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...e-learned.html

MarkDFW

The guys at LG know what they're talking about. They've been racing since I was a kid. If they say Castrol SRF is the bench mark, that should tell you something.

X25

I'm a bit confused. The boiling points of RF-650 are listed as dry 613F and wet 410F. These numbers are no better than Motul RBF600's; what am I missing?

http://www.essexparts.com/endless-rf...tch-fluid.html

MarkDFW

I haven't used it. Maybe LG will chime in. My guess is that while it has the same boiling points, the chemicals in there resist getting to those boiling points better than Motul 600.

BEZ06

Your experience with Motul RBF 600 is NOT typical!!

The dry boiling point of the RBF 600 is essentially the same (actually 4°F higher) than the Castrol SRF.

If you've been boiling RBF 600 then you've got a BIG problem with your brakes, or you're not flushing it frequently enough.

The wet boiling point of the RBF 600 is significantly lower than the wet boiling point of the SRF. That's the real value of the SRF - its wet boiling point is higher than a lot of fluids dry boiling point.

The value of the SRF is that you won't need to flush as often - even some race teams will run the same fluid all season, with just small maintenance bleeds to keep the fluid in the calipers clean and fresh.

The Motul RBF 600 should get a full flush regularly - probably before each event.

I ran RBF 600 for years and NEVER boiled it. I flushed before every event, and often did a caliper bleed after the first day of a multi-day event.

I've been running SRF since last fall, and I've just done a small bleed to get fresh stuff into the calipers before each event. I'll do a complete system flush at the end of the summer before I do several fall events here at Daytona.

Bottom line.....your bad-mouthing of RBF 600 is totally uncalled for - its one of the top brake fluids available and will work great if you have good cooling, have a good braking technique, and if you flush it regularly (at least every 30 days if you're doing multiple weekend events every month).

I do consider SRF the best fluid out there, but RBF 600 isn't far behind, but does require a little more attention.

Bob