Captain Buddha

Went to the 5-Star Ford Track Day at Eagles Canyon Raceway this past Saturday and had a blast! Ran 5 sessions (that was a LOT, especially for this track, along with the heat!).

On the 4th session I was coming around the final turn at 1G+ and heard some odd noises..."what was that?"...did I blow a tire, have tread separation? No, tire pressure fine, car handling fine, no loss of control, etc. Turns out the tire and wheel well liner decided to make some not-so-sweet love (ie - "self-clearanced" as I like to call it)...this happened right after pit-out so I had to make a full 2.5 mile lap at reduced speed...that sucked, but oh well, pitted and saw the issue. Many thanks to Vorschlag Motorsports (http://www.vorshlag.com) for their trackside assistance. Terry Fair and his ace wrench Ryan Behgam had me up and going lickity split (Dani, my wife, kindly offered her '12 GS as backup if my car wasn't ready for the 5th/final session). So now the car is minus a passenger side wheelwell liner. Will I put another one in or just forgo it? I don't know, yet. If I keep it I most likely will need to add a very small (5mm?) wheel spacer for clearance, although the tires I am running are a very common size for my car. Pix of the carnage:





Videos of the five sessions following. If you only have time for one video, here is my best lap (2:02.71), although it was taken on my iPhone with not the best of mounts, sort of shaky, but it does have the Harry's Lap Timer Overlay:


Session 1 (Yellow/Blag flags @ 12:05...why? Because: notice the Porche IN the hay bales @ 12:25, session is over due to Porsche needing extrication, messed up front end/fender):

Session 2 (@ 16:02 I had two wheels off in Turn 3, I blame it on a text message LOL. @ 18:24 I save it from the hay bales):

Session 3:

Session 4 (at (9:14 you hear the tire and wheel well liner make contact):

Session 5 (I'm started to get tired on this one, I mistakenly call out "session 4"):

SilveradoSS500

Nice, looking pretty damn fast honestly.

Here is our sector differences:

YOU ME
12.47 11.94
12.81 12.98
15.10 14.96
22.06 21.80
18.21 17.41
11.32 11.24
12.19 12.10
12.93 13.16

Pretty damn close and you beat me in 2 sectors lol. You have a better tire and I have better brakes and suspension. I also didn't have brakes in my 2:01..pads where gone but I'm making excuses.... gosh we need to go out together and do lead and follow!

SilveradoSS500

I hit 129 on the straight and you hit 113 lol

I just compared the data, you had more entry speed.

Screamin Z

Its due to the track being very rough and your stock? suspension allowing for higher range of travel.

It wont hurt anything if you run without the fender liner.

Captain Buddha

Thank you, that is cool to see the sector differences. Sounds like a plan! I'm always up for hitting the track!

Captain Buddha

I wasn't as fast on the back straight this day as I was the weekend before (hit 125 a few times then)...

Captain Buddha

Maybe I should've opted for the off-road / rallycross suspension? LOL

Yes, it is a *rough* track. Suspension is stock (Mag Ride/PTM), car is bone stock with exception of LG Motorsports World Challenge Wheels and Sport Cups...and a PFADT Rear Tow Hook.

Captain Buddha

Trying to figure out if the tire/fender liner contact is more on the inside, or more on the top of the tire. There were some marks/scuffing on the inside of the tire and the inner fender, although, with the "carnage" pic of the inner fender it is pretty hard to tell, but it seems like it is more on the inside than on the top. Here are a few photos that were taken in the same spot where it happened (this was a few sessions before it happened). You can see that the rear/right rear is heavily loaded/planted as I'm coming out of a corner at full throttle (2nd gear). Also, it looks like the outer part of the tire is fairly close to the fender lip, so putting a wheel spacer may cause interference issues with the fender, I don't know for sure though.













Pic of my buddy's ZR1 with me riding shotgun:

Captain Buddha

So, I actually had some time to look at the rear fender wells of my Z (wheels/tires still on) last night and I noticed a few things (pix below):
-the outside of each fender well is making contact with the tire at the lip, towards the front of the wheel well (ie - it is taking paint off).
-where the tire is contacting the fender well there is some marking on the tire (little grooves).
-the driver side fender liner and tire are making contact on the inside/top, there are visible marks, so it is safe to assume that what happened to the passenger side fender liner will eventually happen to the driver side (ie - self clearance).

Passenger side fender, you can see where the tire has made contact with the fender well:






Driver side fender, just barely making contact:


Driver side fender liner showing wear at the point that tire is making contact:


Slightly noticeable marking on the Driver side tire showing where the fender well and the tire have made contact. Thinking back to track time I actually heard them making contact in hard corners, it was a soft noise:


So, seeing those pictures makes it evident that a wheel spacer will *not* help the issue. I suppose the solution(s) would be:
-smaller rear tire
or
-adjust the ride height

I'm working with Anthony at LG to find the best solution. He's been very helpful, great guy!

Captain Buddha

So last night my wife and I played "NASCAR Pit Crew" and swapped my Cup tires/track wheels off my Z06 (MagRide) and onto her GS (non-MagRide) and I have a track day at Eagles Canyon Raceway tomorrow. This is a high-speed, rough track (this is where I ripped my fender liner off). In other words, a perfect place to test my combo. Her non-MagRide GS feels much stiffer than my MagRide Z06 so, in theory, we should've have rubbing issues on her GS. That's the reason for taking her car out there with this setup. If I have no rubbing issues on her car then she gets the Cup tires and the wheels (she has an interest in track days) for her GS and for my Z I'll buy a set of 19/20 Cup ZP tires and put them on my OEM 19/20 Cup wheels and be a happy camper. If not...well, then I guess I'm going to go with a 325/30/19 Cup for the rear. Also, I think the wheels look better on her car due to the color.

Captain Buddha

Had a great track day yesterday! I've gotta say that I'm not a fan of driving an automatic, especially on the track, but I went faster than I thought. Ran a best of 2:06, and there's definitely some room for improvement. Funny thing is, the car feels much S L O W E R than it ran! So, down to the nitty-gritty: I did have some rubbing in the high-g bumpy corners. So, looks like I'm just going to put the wheels and tires up for sale and go with a new set of 19/20 Cup ZP tires for my Z.

3X2

Looking at the pictures it looks like your rear ride height is too, too , too low. Do you knw the Z and D height?

Captain Buddha

Car is absolutely bone stock, meaning that I have not tweaked the ride height. You have to take this into consideration that my lard butt (and a passenger) are in the car: those pix show the car in 2nd gear at wide open throttle coming out of a corner, so the front end is unloaded and the rear is heavily loaded, also, it is a mag ride car. Do not know the Z&D. This is what the car looks like at rest with the 18/19 wheels and cups and then the 19/20 OEM cup wheels with PS2 tires:





Now, if you want to see my "hurting" on 19/20 OEM here it is, my lard butt and my instructor from my first track day with this car, he was a big guy as well. We had to have over 550 lbs in the car LOL! For the record, I am not getting rubbing with the OEM 19/20 Cups Wheels and PS2 tires, hence the reason for me deciding to go with the 19/20 ZP Cups.

C5ZEE06

Captain Buddha

When you take a look at the pix of the car at rest/with no one in it, do you still have the same opinion? Appreciate your input.

froggy47

If you want to stay with big rubber you could up the spring weights.

I had big rubber on my c5z & stock springs would get rubbing, T1 springs problem solved.

Changing out springs is pretty ez, rides a little stiffer on the street if that's an issue.

Captain Buddha

froggy - I appreciate the input. A stiffer rear spring has definitely crossed my mind but then I wonder after that affecting the front as well as the MagRide, etc. I don't mind going to 19/20 ZP Cups...I know that combo fits...gotta figure out a fair price for these 18/19 wheels and Cup tires and wheels to sell 'em.

Werks

You are facing the same quandary that I ran into shortly after I got my car which came with Mag. Suspension also. The faster that you go and the stickier the tires that you use, the more load you put on the suspension and the quicker the limitations of the magnetic suspension is found. That limitation is that the suspension is simply too soft for aggressive track use at least on the Z06 (damper programming is different on the ZR1). So you end up with 2 options. 1 you can change the leaf spring to a stiffer one in which case you may be over sprung and under damped as well as possibly overheat the ride control module because you have increased the shock frequency or #2 you can just ditch the system and change over to coilovers.

Captain Buddha

Werks: appreciate your input. I plan on keeping the suspension stock and keeping the magride for the time-being anyway. As much as I love this car I don't see me keeping it long-term so I'm not too much on modding it, other than a harness bar setup.

truth.b

Can his car be reprogrammed with the ZR1 MagRide algorithms or are the shocks different between models (GS/Z06/ZR1) ?