Pilot Super Sport Issues
#1
Pilot Super Sport Issues
Hello all,
New member here but have been lurking for a few years.
I track a 2007 Z51 with Pfadt stage 1 suspension and have tried a few tires over the years with some success. I was convinced by friends to try the Pilot Super Sports but so far I am not impressed. The outside shoulders on the front are now showing the belts after 6 track days (the rears aren't much better). Even the cheaper BFG KDWs lasted a whole season with similar lap times. I've read several articles on this forum regarding excessive wear on the inside shoulders but those seem to be limited to street cars. Again this wear is on the outside shoulders, the rest of the tire is as expected.
I have our local Corvette "guru" set the front suspension up for me with the following specs:
Camber: -1.45 degrees
Caster: 7.5 degrees
Toe: 0.05 degrees
Even with the other tires (which lasted a whole season) there was definitely more wear on the outside edges but nothing like this. Does anybody have any better settings for the Super Sports? I can't believe the current settings are way off...
Any better tire suggestions? Just cut my losses and go for the cheap Asian brands like Kuhmo Ecsta XS?
Thanks
New member here but have been lurking for a few years.
I track a 2007 Z51 with Pfadt stage 1 suspension and have tried a few tires over the years with some success. I was convinced by friends to try the Pilot Super Sports but so far I am not impressed. The outside shoulders on the front are now showing the belts after 6 track days (the rears aren't much better). Even the cheaper BFG KDWs lasted a whole season with similar lap times. I've read several articles on this forum regarding excessive wear on the inside shoulders but those seem to be limited to street cars. Again this wear is on the outside shoulders, the rest of the tire is as expected.
I have our local Corvette "guru" set the front suspension up for me with the following specs:
Camber: -1.45 degrees
Caster: 7.5 degrees
Toe: 0.05 degrees
Even with the other tires (which lasted a whole season) there was definitely more wear on the outside edges but nothing like this. Does anybody have any better settings for the Super Sports? I can't believe the current settings are way off...
Any better tire suggestions? Just cut my losses and go for the cheap Asian brands like Kuhmo Ecsta XS?
Thanks
#7
Instructor
Tire pressure is low, I find 38-40 necessary when you push them.
Not enough camber or castor. I run Mid Ohio so that affects my alignment some but these are my specs and I am not wearing out shoulders on tires:
Front -2.1 1.5
Rear 1.0 .8
Castor: 8.5-MAX
Toe: 3/32 out front, 1/16 in rear
The SS have a very soft side wall thus need lots of support. You can stiffen sways too to help deal with the body roll. I found I was loading the car so much in the turns 1.3-1.4g on super sports that adding some stiffness increased my lap times even though I sacrificed a little grip
A really great new tire that just came out recently is the BFG Rivals. It has a 200 wear rating but its a great track tire. You will notice it has A LOT OF MEAT on the shoulders!!! Plus the side walls are stiffer which will help in the vette. I am gonna run 315 fronts and 335s in the back eventually.
A great way to ever prevent this from happening again is to get a IR thermometer or pyrometer and get temp readings from the inside to outside of the tire to tell where the heat is. This will help you adjust pressure and determine camber angle. In the future if you see abnormal tire wear across the surface i.e. wear on outside increase the camber or vice versa for the inside. If you google this subject there is copious amounts of info about it.
PM me if you need some help with setup. I got plugged in with some smart guys that really helped me out.
Not enough camber or castor. I run Mid Ohio so that affects my alignment some but these are my specs and I am not wearing out shoulders on tires:
Front -2.1 1.5
Rear 1.0 .8
Castor: 8.5-MAX
Toe: 3/32 out front, 1/16 in rear
The SS have a very soft side wall thus need lots of support. You can stiffen sways too to help deal with the body roll. I found I was loading the car so much in the turns 1.3-1.4g on super sports that adding some stiffness increased my lap times even though I sacrificed a little grip
A really great new tire that just came out recently is the BFG Rivals. It has a 200 wear rating but its a great track tire. You will notice it has A LOT OF MEAT on the shoulders!!! Plus the side walls are stiffer which will help in the vette. I am gonna run 315 fronts and 335s in the back eventually.
A great way to ever prevent this from happening again is to get a IR thermometer or pyrometer and get temp readings from the inside to outside of the tire to tell where the heat is. This will help you adjust pressure and determine camber angle. In the future if you see abnormal tire wear across the surface i.e. wear on outside increase the camber or vice versa for the inside. If you google this subject there is copious amounts of info about it.
PM me if you need some help with setup. I got plugged in with some smart guys that really helped me out.
Last edited by ttgangsta; 08-13-2013 at 10:12 AM.
#8
Great info Mr Gangsta . I have 2 new supersports on the way and will increase the camber to a little over -2 degrees. I talked to a Michelin rep who suggested switching the tires side to side every couple sessions due to the nature of our "abrasive" track. I'll also try more pressure.
It's funny how I never had to think of this stuff during my racing years. Somebody else did it for me lol.
It's funny how I never had to think of this stuff during my racing years. Somebody else did it for me lol.
#9
Drifting
I've been running the PS2s with 38/36 psi hot and been very happy with their grip and wear on PFADTs street/track alignment specs (little wear on the outer edge as expected). I thought the Super Sports were suppose to be better for wear and at least as good for grip? I was about to buy some...
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
#10
Instructor
Great info Mr Gangsta . I have 2 new supersports on the way and will increase the camber to a little over -2 degrees. I talked to a Michelin rep who suggested switching the tires side to side every couple sessions due to the nature of our "abrasive" track. I'll also try more pressure.
It's funny how I never had to think of this stuff during my racing years. Somebody else did it for me lol.
It's funny how I never had to think of this stuff during my racing years. Somebody else did it for me lol.
Hope someday I can have someone else fiddle with this stuff for me too
#11
Instructor
I've been running the PS2s with 38/36 psi hot and been very happy with their grip and wear on PFADTs street/track alignment specs (little wear on the outer edge as expected). I thought the Super Sports were suppose to be better for wear and at least as good for grip? I was about to buy some...
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
#12
I've been running the PS2s with 38/36 psi hot and been very happy with their grip and wear on PFADTs street/track alignment specs (little wear on the outer edge as expected). I thought the Super Sports were suppose to be better for wear and at least as good for grip? I was about to buy some...
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
Would I be disappointed with the Super Sports then?
Could you pass along Pfadt's alignment specs for me? Thanks in advance...
Last edited by volturbo; 08-13-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Need more info.
#13
It's a small track in eastern Canada called Atlantic Motorsport Park. It's claim to fame would be G. Villeneuve, B. Rahal and Keke Rosberg racing Formula Atlantics there in the 70s. It is quite technical and abrasive. I also run at Mt. Tremblant, Quebec occasionally.
#14
Race Director
I've only got two track days on mine, but I liked them a lot!!
I was running about 36-37psi hot all around.
As mentioned, the sidewall may need a little higher pressure to keep it from rolling over.
Here's a link to Pfadt's alignment specs.
Just be sure to pay attention to their note at the top that indicates "Negative toe measurements indicate toe-in", which is different than most all alignment machines measure toe.
Also, many of us actually run a very slight toe-out up front for a crisper turn-in.
http://www.pfadtracing.com/blog/wp-c...-9.12.2011.pdf
Have fun at the track!!
Bob
I was running about 36-37psi hot all around.
As mentioned, the sidewall may need a little higher pressure to keep it from rolling over.
Here's a link to Pfadt's alignment specs.
Just be sure to pay attention to their note at the top that indicates "Negative toe measurements indicate toe-in", which is different than most all alignment machines measure toe.
Also, many of us actually run a very slight toe-out up front for a crisper turn-in.
http://www.pfadtracing.com/blog/wp-c...-9.12.2011.pdf
Have fun at the track!!
Bob
#15
Drifting
Sure:
http://www.pfadtracing.com/blog/wp-c...-9.12.2011.pdf
I pretty much maxed out each range. But I will be bringing it back in to add some toe out to the front (currently at 0); and maybe a little more from negative camber if I have the range.
http://www.pfadtracing.com/blog/wp-c...-9.12.2011.pdf
I pretty much maxed out each range. But I will be bringing it back in to add some toe out to the front (currently at 0); and maybe a little more from negative camber if I have the range.