Red Bull's Traction Secret. F1
10-02-2013, 03:14 PM
#2
Safety Car
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Shenandoah Valley Virginia
Posts: 4,549
Likes: 0
Received 27 Likes
on
24 Posts
Very interesting article. I would like to read a more detailed write up on the system and how it works. Probably won't make much difference in the long run - Bernie and the crew will probably outlaw this innovationt to maintain "competitiveness".
10-03-2013, 11:45 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Very easy to do and it doesn't involve the engine (in which the traction control software used to reside). You could plant your foot and have the KERS do all the traction control and it wouldn't be part of the engine control that is regulated by the rules.
The motor/generator unit could suck off power when you were trying to accelerate and as noted in the article, it could be set to limit power relative to the pressure in the shock. It's not "traction control" in that it isn't sensing wheelspin, but it's effectively limiting the amount of wheel torque based on how much power you can put down...
Legal, maybe, but most certainly not in the spirit of the rules...
The motor/generator unit could suck off power when you were trying to accelerate and as noted in the article, it could be set to limit power relative to the pressure in the shock. It's not "traction control" in that it isn't sensing wheelspin, but it's effectively limiting the amount of wheel torque based on how much power you can put down...
Legal, maybe, but most certainly not in the spirit of the rules...
10-03-2013, 11:53 AM
#5
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Spirit of the rules? FT. It's the engineers that win not the drivers or the teams. The severe restrictions in F1 makes it an expensive spec series.
They can't even use materials that ordinary production cars can.
There is no incentive if an engineer can't create.
If Newey left RB, they would fail. Notice the old dwg board.
They don't make engineers like him anymore.
FREEDOM
FREEDOM.
They can't even use materials that ordinary production cars can.
There is no incentive if an engineer can't create.
If Newey left RB, they would fail. Notice the old dwg board.
They don't make engineers like him anymore.
FREEDOM
FREEDOM.
10-03-2013, 12:14 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Engineers have been winning races forever... One NASCAR crew chief said in the 70's... "drivers is like light bulbs, ya just screw in another one"...
At the top levels of motorsport, the drivers are all excellent. That goes for autocross, NASCAR, Indy cars, and F1. Any driver at the top of the game can get pretty much everything that the car has in it. How much the car can deliver, varies extensively between cars.
I coined the phase... "Drivers are spectators too, they just get the best seats in the house".....
10-03-2013, 12:42 PM
#8
Safety Car
Only in F1 
With the new "power units" (no longer called "engines") for 2014, the KERS systems will be much more integrated with the internal combustion system and will be (in most cases, I believe) provided by the individual engine manufacturers rather than by the teams and/or third parties. What that means to things like this will be interesting to see. One would think that the standardized ECUs would now have to take into account all the sources of power and control. Of course, now that the issue has been brought out in the open, it's pretty likely that it will be addressed.
BTW, "Bernie and the crew" can't outlaw technical developments. That's the FIA's realm. That doesn't mean he can't offer "suggestions", though.
I think the really interesting bit of Minardi's analysis is that Vettel's car did it and Webber's car did not. So everything is equal, eh, Mister Horner?
Z//
With the new "power units" (no longer called "engines") for 2014, the KERS systems will be much more integrated with the internal combustion system and will be (in most cases, I believe) provided by the individual engine manufacturers rather than by the teams and/or third parties. What that means to things like this will be interesting to see. One would think that the standardized ECUs would now have to take into account all the sources of power and control. Of course, now that the issue has been brought out in the open, it's pretty likely that it will be addressed.
BTW, "Bernie and the crew" can't outlaw technical developments. That's the FIA's realm. That doesn't mean he can't offer "suggestions", though.
I think the really interesting bit of Minardi's analysis is that Vettel's car did it and Webber's car did not. So everything is equal, eh, Mister Horner?
Z//
10-03-2013, 12:51 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Engineers have been winning races forever... One NASCAR crew chief said in the 70's... "drivers is like light bulbs, ya just screw in another one"...
At the top levels of motorsport, the drivers are all excellent. That goes for autocross, NASCAR, Indy cars, and F1. Any driver at the top of the game can get pretty much everything that the car has in it. How much the car can deliver, varies extensively between cars.
I coined the phase... "Drivers are spectators too, they just get the best seats in the house".....
10-03-2013, 04:42 PM
#10
Safety Car
This year will be Adrian Newey's 10th championship. He's also the only person to win championships with 3 different teams. Think for a minute what Indy car racing would be like if he had stayed with that circuit.
He's also active in vintage racing which people in Europe tell me is an absolute insane experience. He's destroyed both a GT40 and a lightweight Jaguar. Most recently he had an accident in a Ginetta.
We may never see another genius of his caliber in our lifetimes. The man has set the standard for race car engineering.
Richard Newton
He's also active in vintage racing which people in Europe tell me is an absolute insane experience. He's destroyed both a GT40 and a lightweight Jaguar. Most recently he had an accident in a Ginetta.
We may never see another genius of his caliber in our lifetimes. The man has set the standard for race car engineering.
Richard Newton
10-03-2013, 05:24 PM
#11
Engineering should be fair game, but if they are using it on Vettel's car and not Webber's.....
I sure hope he knocks a few people out when he leaves.
Unfortunatley, I agree with you. There are plenty of guys capable, but having the opportunity and the funding to thrive probably will not happen.
I sure hope he knocks a few people out when he leaves.
Unfortunatley, I agree with you. There are plenty of guys capable, but having the opportunity and the funding to thrive probably will not happen.
Last edited by dfinke23; 10-03-2013 at 05:28 PM.
10-03-2013, 05:25 PM
#12
Drifting
Conspiracy theories abound....
10-03-2013, 06:29 PM
#13
Safety Car
I found that little tidbit very interesting as well. It doesn't make any sense for them to NOT put the same technology in Webber's car. It's all about constructor points so why wouldn't you want Webber right up there? Or do they dial it back just a bit in his car so he can't keep up with Seb but is still fast enough to compete for 2 or 3. Hell, maybe they tuned down his car once he announced he was leaving.
Conspiracy theories abound....
Conspiracy theories abound....
Z//
10-03-2013, 08:49 PM
#14
Safety Car
Thread Starter
This year will be Adrian Newey's 10th championship. He's also the only person to win championships with 3 different teams. Think for a minute what Indy car racing would be like if he had stayed with that circuit.
He's also active in vintage racing which people in Europe tell me is an absolute insane experience. He's destroyed both a GT40 and a lightweight Jaguar. Most recently he had an accident in a Ginetta.
We may never see another genius of his caliber in our lifetimes. The man has set the standard for race car engineering.
Richard Newton
He's also active in vintage racing which people in Europe tell me is an absolute insane experience. He's destroyed both a GT40 and a lightweight Jaguar. Most recently he had an accident in a Ginetta.
We may never see another genius of his caliber in our lifetimes. The man has set the standard for race car engineering.
Richard Newton
The real competition will be between the two Titans of F1 design next year, Newey and Byrne. Kimi and Vettel are the passengers.
This will be the 3rd time that Ferrari has lured Byrne away from his SCUBA diving resort in Thailand at an exorbitant cost to Ferrari.
They are and will be the two highest paid engineers in history. $25 mill each or more.
Byrne's B194 chassis beat Neweys dominating William because of rule changes and Adrian Newey accused Byrnes of cheating. Remember the Benetton was the only car that didn't have rooster tails in the rain? A late-season charge by Williams robbed Byrne of his first constructors title, but with his motto of "Evolution Not Revolution".
Byrne almost won the title for Senna and Tollman in it's first year. Tollman become Benetton and the lowest class team ever seen in F1 arose out of Barnard's ashes, so to speak.
This criminal organization became the Ferrari team and the rest is history.
Micheal Schumacher was the Bill Clinton of F1 and F1 was awful for all those years. Champ Cars died also, so for more than a decade, there was no open wheel racing for me.
Let the cheating begin. The Ferrari team will once again be sanctioned by the FIA led by the lowest of low, Jean Todt.
Newey will probably quit when his contract ends in two years and Vettel will become the next Schumacher at Ferrari, albeit with a great deal more talent. 10 WDCs??
Alonso and Kimi. Yes sir, it's will be a great season.
J.J. Hiss will be designing Renault's turbo V6. He was responsible for Renaults first turbo V6s in 88. He was also the first with a V10 in F1 and the inventor of the pneumatic valve system. His first love is huge truck turbo diesels.
Adrian Newey OBE and Rory Byrne, aero and chassis and Luca Marmorini and Hiss, the greatest F1 engine designers, will will battle. May the best engineers win.