s'noJob

Another thread I started that discusses instructors prompts these questions.

Say I'm on the grid standing next to my C5, helmet in hand, waiting to begin my Hyperdrive. A group of instructors comes to me and one of them asks, "Do you have an instructor yet?" and I say No. "Welcome to VIR. My name is ..."

What criteria do instructors use to determine which driver to risk getting into the passenger seat with? I was told that many instructors will choose the vehicle with which they're comfortable knowing regarding power and dynamics.

But I suspect there might be more to it than that. Though one cannot (and should not) make assumptions based on looks, I think if I were an instructor I would be more likely to choose the grey-haired guy in the Altima than the spiky haired 19 year old with the Megadeth T-shirt and the tricked out Mustang.

If you're an instructor and are comfortable in sharing, has there ever been a driver you felt somewhat reluctant to get into his/her car with?

.

Procrastination Racing

I have no idea how the HPDE classes pick instructors and students as everything I did was with SCCA. Usually the Chief of Driver Training would assign students to an instructor. of course, instructors did NOT ride along, as these were race conditions, not HPDE. One person to a car, period.

The exception was the station wagon tours where the instructor would drive at slow speed around the course, and instruct the students on how to follow it, how to find a line, where hazards where, where the flag stations were, and other things about the track, such as going over the embankment between turns 8 and 9 at Moroso into the canal and how to avoid the alligators once you were in the water. (Serious)

Usually the CDT would put students of a class with instructors of a similar class, like Formula Ford students with an FF instructor, although that wasn't always the case. I took an ITC Corolla to drivers' school and had an FF driver as my instructor. Actually, that was good for me, as he was an FF champ and knew his stuff, and how to pass it on to me. He knew how to drive fast, how to drive the track, and how to race.


I really can't understand the getting in the car like they do. I've seen students do some serious screw ups on track, and sure wouldn't want to be in a car when that happened.

BrianCunningham

They try to match instructors to the car they nomally drive

Last C5

I usually try to pick a student with rear wheel drive performance car. Something that looks like the owner has spent at least some time getting it ready for the track. If it happens to be a Z06, so much the better.

Occasionally, the Chief Driving Instructor simply asks you take a particular car, usually for reasons you probably don't want to know.
Such was the case one day as I reluctantly climbed into a first time at the track student's shiny new SRT Viper. He looked at me and said
"The first thing I want you to know is that I don't even own a gold chain." We got along fine that day and by the end of the day he was getting around the track at a respectable clip.

rithsleeper

Hpde is chosen for us based on past experience. To be honest im still young and I feel I can be a little more down to earth with younger guys. As for hyper drives its always been just the person I see first. I've been lucky and had responsible people. Hyperdrives are not fun for me as an instructor cause its too short. I usually just say "look, you get one shot. Realistically it will be a garbage run. Im going to show you on paper the lines and guide you on track but when you get to the straights have fun." Really for hyperdrive its all about them having fun and staying safe (same for hpde but with goal being to become a better driver).

But really, if you have a mustang with primer bumpers I would prob try to avoid you.

crimlwC6

If you don't know the secret formula, you'll never find out. You may have to conclude it is often a random process(unless you find the secret formula of course).

Hi Volts Z06

Every group I have ever instructed for has assigned a student to me prior to the event. Some actually have gone as far as emailing the students information and encouraging an email introduction which allows us to exchange some critical information (have you ever been on a track before? Did you change your brake fluid before the event? Did you upgrade your brake pads when you added 75hp to your Z06?). I find that most of the time I am given a student with a car similar to my own so I can give input on how that particular model behaves. I've even been assigned "overly aggressive" students with the hope that I could tame them. I can happily report that I've never had a negative experience with a particular student once we understood each other

ErnieN85

I like that way........ but the NCM is the only group I work with that does it!
Usually it's pick some one out who has no one to help them. The Nasa one group that I run with seem to match only the novice groups to an instructor. The rest are left to find one on their own
the other assigns all group one & two students an instructor.
I have had students driving any thinz from a race prepped ZR1 to a volkswagon golf

StKnoWhere

As I mentioned in your other thread, a single Hyperdrive session is more like touring laps with an instructor. The intent of Hyperdrives is to give you a taste for what a HPDE is like but is not a subsitute. Sign up for a weekend, you will love it

JeremyGSU

I've have only run with Chin and one other club once but they both assign the students to you ahead of time. You don't know who you are getting until the day of the event.

Certainly an interesting approach to letting the instructors pick their rides but I'm not sure I like that idea. I would think the poor guy with the cheap car is going to feel like the kid left out in Dodgeball.

travisnd

The folks that run NASA match us to students with cars that would be a good match. I'm 6'4" and I race a Corvette so I usually get bigger high power RWD cars. I can't fit in a Miata and my line isn't optimal for a FWD car. Plus, I'm comfortable in the right seat at 150. Take a slow car racer and put them in a 150+ car and don't let them be in control and they might not like it much.

As for "on grid back up" and Hypderdrives... it's really first come first serve. You're there to do a service for a student who's instructor is a no-show for whatever reason or to show a Hyperdriver a great time and get them hooked.

Bill Dearborn

OP: There are a number of great organizations that can provide you with the experience you are looking for. NASA, BMW, PCA, CHIN, even HOD. The most organized group I have run with has been the BMW Club. Maybe its some German influence but their events are run very well and they do a great job of matching students with instructors who have similar cars. You get a fair amount of track time and there are some pretty specific goals they want students to meet to be advanced from one level to the next. It used to be most schools sort of taught the basics of learn the line, don't deviate from the school line, brake in a straight line, late apexes, etc. Now the more thoughtful groups are emphasizing off line corner entries, extended braking zones in case of emergency (also helps introduce trail braking) and other techniques which help break up some of the monotony that you get from just lapping the same way each lap. These things have increased the amount of fun a student has and have also made instructing more rewarding (i.e., as an instructor I don't get chewed out because I taught somebody to follow a different line than the official school line).

Bill

jaa1992

Shoot when I sign up to instruct I only let the folks know - no miatas, no vipers and no race cars. I have physical limitations that prevent me from fitting in those particular cars. Too tall for miata, legs too long for a viper (man was I disappointed - I really wanted to ride in that car) and not flexible enough to get in a passenger seat in a race car. Thats it.

With the exception of MVP Tracktime every other group assigns instructors and students according to their own secret formula. MVP has sign up sheets and students pick which instructor they want for each session.

Sounds like you are starting to get the bug - find an HPDE program and spend a weekend in the Novice group! You'll have the bug bad after that

s'noJob

Thanks, Bill. So far I've only done NASA - a great group, but just one group. I've heard a lot of good things about BMW, and also they're one of the sponsors of Street Survival for teens.

I guess I'll just have to save my pennies for a real HPDE - tough on a teacher's salary.
.

jaa1992

Can you get weekends off?
Most NASA regions have a plan where you work a weekend or two and they will let you register for an HPDE with no cost.
Flagging is cool and if you get moved around you can observe other cars as they go through the turns.

s'noJob

I did not know that. And yes, I do have weekends off!
.

StKnoWhere

A few suggestions I don't think I have seen and can be done prior to having budget that will help maximize your HPDE time.

Watch videos of the track until you know and can anticipate each turn. Pretend the wheel is in you hand, shift, apply gas and brake, it will feel silly at first but helps build muscle memory. You know the track when you can randomly close your eyes for 15-30 sec at any point and know where you are before reopening. One less thing to learn during a track weekend.

Sit in HPDE classroom sessions until you feel you can teach them.

Request a ride with an Instructor. Check with registration and they will probably try to hook you up even if not registered. Ask them to show you the line at DE1 speed for for a few laps and then let her rip once you get it for the thrill ride segment.

Sign up for charity laps at lunch if available and practice the line at street speed. In general starting out this means turning in a little later than normal from the outside edge, maximizing the radius of the turn using all the track entering and exiting corners (e.g. in/out to the gaters), kissing the apex and back out to the gaters with as little steering input as possible.

Bill Dearborn

Take a look at the BMW Tarheel Chapter HPDE set for VIR the last weekend in April. You can find info on their web site and on Motorsportsreg.com. I have signed up to instruct with them on that weekend. From talking to the Chief Instructor it sounds like they have a well run organization. It will be my first time at VIR so I will be learning the track on Friday.

Bill

k24556

THSCC is running the north course at VIR April 5-6. It is a great event and a good chance to get a lot of laps on turns 1-6, the roller coaster, and hog pen. THSCC really puts on a good event snd they have access to some really great instructors.

Bill, welcome to NC!