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Haha, I couldn't help thinking the same thing. I torque mine with an open end and torque wrench whilte sitting off to the side of the car with one end up on jack stands. It's kind of a pain, but not too bad. Froggy's still a better mechanic than me!
Here are ST rules in regard to camber kits for easy reference:
14. Street Touring®
H. Camber kits (also known as camber compensators) may be installed.
These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts (including
ball joints) that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective
length of a control arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is
allowed. The following restrictions apply:
1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions,
only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced,
but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control
fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multilink
suspension) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.
2. On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower
arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjustment
as allowed by Sections 14.8.B, C, or G may be used, but not
both.
3. On swing or trailing arm suspensions, the main arms may not be
modified or replaced, but lateral locating links/arms may be modified
or replaced.
4. Front wheel drive (FWD) cars with rear beam axles may use shims
between the rear axle and hubs.
5. The replacement arms or mounts must attach to the original standard
mounting points. All bushings must meet the requirements of
Section 14.8.B. Intermediate mounting points (e.g., shock/spring
mounts) may not be moved or relocated on the arm, except as incidental
to the camber adjustment. The knuckle/bearing housing/
spindle assembly cannot be modified or replaced.
6. Changes in suspension geometry are not allowed except as incidental
to the effective arm length change.
It is my opinion that they are not trying to disallow camber kits as they would be used in these C5s. I'll write a letter to SEB for clarification.
The camber blocks are legal in SSP under 15.1.F and again under 15.8.H (one control arm only).
There is no equivalent in ST to SP rule 15.1.F. There is a similar clause to SP 15.8.H in ST under 14.8.H, but the wording slightly different. In this case, the way I read the rules, 15.8.H does NOT allow these types of camber kits to be used, but 15.1.F does, hence they would be legal in SP and not in ST.
It is my opinion that they are not trying to disallow camber kits as they would be used in these C5s.
Like I said in an earlier post, the spirit of the rule isn't being violated by these camber kits, but the letter of the rule is. To me, I'd rather just get the car high enough to torque to spec and risk a minor alignment change than loose a jacket because someone throws a protest my way.
I went out last night to prove myself right by actually using a torque wrench on the fronts (can't get one on the rears) after tightening them up the same way I'd done it before which I swore must have been 120+ ft-lbs.
I went out last night to prove myself right by actually using a torque wrench on the fronts (can't get one on the rears) after tightening them up the same way I'd done it before which I swore must have been 120+ ft-lbs.
...it was 100-105 ft-lbs.
Nothing to see here, people, move along.
Yeah it's a lot. My "cheat sheet" has these specs:
Front lower
front 125
rear 125
Rear lower
front 107
rear 70
FWIW I'd go +10 on all just as a margin for wrench error.
Most OEM eccentric alignment bolts stretch after X amount of torquing on and off. If you are having consistent issues retaining alignment specs it would be best to replace all the bolts. Had similar issues with my S2000 and new bolts fixed it.
LOL. OK, that's funny. I actually LOL'ed. Here are some more. I know I keep saying the build thread is coming (and it is, I have near final drafts of about half of my work so far), just gotta get through this last tour in Colorado to have a little bit of time.
Those of you that know me on Facebook with recognize these. We'll call it a teaser for the car specific build thread.
That's a bunch 'O camber. Rob sent me that pick while you were at MW. I'm surprised it's needs that much, especially after changing bushings.
Remember, I haven't dialed in on the settings yet so we'll see where it ends up. Also, no one "needs" that much, but autocross is much more of a skid pad competition than road racing. I'm also pretty stiffly sprung so I don't gain as much in roll because I don't roll. Lastly, I like thinking outside the box to see how far I can push the envelope; it's a great way to learn.
Remember, I haven't dialed in on the settings yet so we'll see where it ends up. Also, no one "needs" that much, but autocross is much more of a skid pad competition than road racing. I'm also pretty stiffly sprung so I don't gain as much in roll because I don't roll. Lastly, I like thinking outside the box to see how far I can push the envelope; it's a great way to learn.
No one needs that much. Lol well said. Looking forward to learning more about your car.
FWIW and all that but I can see running around that sort of camber with the Rival-S but suspect that the RE71R won't need all that much. Something we should all remember is that the more camber you have, the less pressure you need... and that improves mechanical grip cornering. Yes, it hurts braking some but the low pressures make up for part of that and you don't brake all that much in autocrossing anyway.
Is it optical illusion or does that car actually have a bit of reverse rake going on?
Illusion. I bet John was pulling to the line in the second to last photo. The last photo, I have all my pit gear in the back so it's loaded down. Quarter inch rake, like most people run.
Here's some video from yesterday's event. I decided to run with a local club than attend the Tour at Deven's due to the fact I just got the car back on Thursday night. We did 9 runs (I got 10 with a rerun), so I got plenty of seat time to see how the car felt and adapt to the new changes.
Changes:
- Hypercoil Front Spring: Race/Track
- Strano front sway bar: Stiff setting
- Strano rear sway bar: Middle setting
- Kartboy Endlinks
- Ride-tech front shocks: set to -12 turns (middle setting) from stiff on all 4 corners
- NRG seat
- Corner Balance
- Alignment
This was my second best clean run. My fastest clean was .28 faster.
It was a very short course, but had a sweeping right with camber, an off-camber left, a fast slalom, slow slalom, and a couple other elements...so I got to feel what the car did in a variety of typical autocross elements.
06-10-2015, 09:24 AM
