mikymu

Hey Guys, I am looking to add extra brake cooling for my Z06 at the spindle and there are two kits avaiable - LG and Lambert. The major difference is that lamber has opening that allow air to cool the spindle structure and LG does not. Any suggestion which setup is better? I have Z06 carbon - same as ZR1 and not sure if the spindle is different from Z06 and if LG or Lambert kit are direct bolt on for my application

Cheers

Mike

Lambert





LG

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

We kept our sealed so the air was forced to go through the hat of the rotor....

I do not see any point in trying to cool the upright....it doesn't get that hot.

mikymu

Thanks Anthony for the quick reply!

Does it bolt on ZR1 type of spindle or are the spindle all the same between ZR1 and Z06?

Cheers

Mike

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

ZR1 and Z06 spindles are the same...they made a material change along the way with the C6's but the dimensions are all the same.

mikymu

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like you just need to remove the three bolts that connect to the front hub to attach your spindle - pretty straight forward

Cheers

Mike

mikymu

Just place order by phone and your staff was very helpful. Will keep you posted on how it works out. So far my CCM rotor temp go way beyond 1000F at every brake zone at Thunderhill running endless W007 brake pads .... not good

This is with added cooling from fog light opening

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Couple things..

A 90 degree into another hose doesn't do much for air flow and might actually stop it.

Pulling off of the fog light opening without some sort of fence on the outside edge typically doesn't do anything.

mikymu

Interesting point. Will conduct some wind speed testing in couple days. It's not a 90 degree turn but more like 30 degree and still allow air flow from bottom of car as shown here. The fence on fog light location make sense

Bill Dearborn

I have the Lambert spindle duct kit on my car. I went with it for a couple of reasons. First, I didn't have to remove the hub to install the plate and didn't have to worry about proper spacing of the hub from the spindle. Second, I wanted to attach the Lambert plates that protect the tie rod ends and ball joint from the rotor heat.

Now the downside. Anthony, is correct. All of the air should go to the rotor and not the back side of the hub. I sealed the opening off by using some metalized duct tape wrapped around the spindle duct. Due to the way Lambert mounted the tubing to their plate the air flow into the rotor is probably reduced even though I have taped off the hole to the back.

Bill

mikymu

Thanks for the feedback Bill. I am testing CCM rotor for a while so need max cooling and went with LG. Now I just need to make sure I have good airflow going to rotor and will do some wind testing soon

phipp85

You'll need to separate the lower control arm ball joint from the upright to get the lower wheel bearing bolt out. (unless you have some of LG's nice drop spindles.) I remove the upper control arm and the upright as one piece so I can clamp it in a vise rather than fight it on the car. Be careful not to cut your rubber grease boot on the lower ball joint.

mikymu

Thanks for the advice. I have the tool to remove the control arm and will take care not to damage grease boot

05dsom

Do you really need the extra cooling for the CCM's?
How are you measuring brake temps while on track?
I have the CCM's on my Zr1 with the Katech under tray/brake duct kit, but so far no spindle ducts...just do 5-6 HPDE's in spring and fall in black PCA group and Solo BMW group and brakes seem pretty stout

mikymu

You are lucky if you don't have over heat issue. I use industrial type infrared pyrometer made by Omega and attach it on the spindle near caliper to take real time rotor temp - every single brake zone at Thunderhill exceed 1000F - yes, every single brake zone

Here is the IR pyromter





Video below was from recent track test at Thunderhill 5 miles course. At end of video CCM brake over heat after two quick tap at Turn 7 west and send the brake into ICE mode where brake pedal became hard and I barely able to wrestle the car around the turn - in so doing upset the car and a small throttle input send the butt around.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

I have a customer in Europe...actually one of our distributors that ran into all kinds of issues with the CCM brakes on their ZR1. Almost burnt the car to the ground at Monza because the brakes were running so hot. They were also doing 40 and 50 min sessions on track too.

parsonsj

Sweet data collection!

Werks

Wooee that orange car is fast, who's that?? lol


Anthony, thank you for working with Rich and helping me get the parts that we needed to get my car back together. As you can see in the video it's working great again! Mike, great choice going with the LG spindle ducts, they are a great company to work with and imho one of the most stand up companies out there!

mikymu

Chasing your Z06 is like trying to chase a Daytona prototype with a civic. I had to utilize all the track surface tracking out from side to side just to keep pace with you and I had tears in my eyes watching your car following the track like it's on rail. All that nice aero package really helped and your strong Katech engine is definitely a plus

So Anthony, you are absolutely right about fog light opening - it reduce air flow to the brake cooling duct compare with stock setup! I stay up all night before track event to fashion the fog light air duct thinking it will add more air flow - boy was I wrong. Here is my wind speed test results

I use my leaf blower to generate the wind and Kestrel wind speed meter for measurement. The Lowes' leaf blower was strong enough to generate 126 mph wind speed at the nozzle!



Directing the air flow above and below splitter and through the opening on the front apron and fog light opening and measure maximum wind speed with stock vs "modified fog light air vent" setups





Maximum wind speed exiting the brake cooling duct with stock setup was through the apron opening above the splitter at 48.7 mph



Below the splitter maximum wind generated was 32.2 mph



Now the modified fog light opening setup. When I aim the leaf blower right at the fog light air vent it generated merely 27.7 mph which is similar from below the splitter with this setup. .... all that hard work for nothing



The Maximum wind speed for the fog light air vent setup was generated from the front apron opening above the splitter at 34.4 mph which is 14.3 mph slower than stock setup.



Wind speed diminish with distance. When I move 3 feet away from the leaf blower (which is about the distance for wind to travel from front of bumper to brake duct opening in the wheel well) the maximum wind speed was about 30 mph. I think as air travel front front apron opening under the car into the brake duct it may experience some sort of compression effect that's why wind speed exiting brake duct opening was higher compare with fog light opening

Because wind speed decrease with distance - by the time it reach the rotor from brake duct opening it would have diminished in strength so it's best to have spindle brake cooling duct direct as much air as possible to the rotor - esp a red hot CCM that's above 1000F. In grand scheme of things wind speed at 34 mph vs 47 mph from brake cooling duct 2 feet from the rotor may not have made much difference. Now this is with leaf blower generating 126 mph wind at the nozzle. Imagine coming to a slow tight turn going from 110+ mph to 30 mph and just when the rotor is at it's hottest you have least amount of wind to cool the rotor .... we need a smart electric cooling fan that sense speed difference under hard braking and generate 50+ mph wind at low vehicle speed to cool the rotor

Now is 47 mph wind enough to adequately cool CCM rotor with spindle vent setup? I would say yes for street and occasional spirited driving but not enough for prolong track use. As you can see from C7R picture below they utilize air vent right next to radiator opining and wind is directed both to the rotor and caliper. I am not about to sacrifice radiator air space to help cool the brakes - my engine need as much cooling as possible. So now it looks like stock setup it is with spindle air vent from LG and if that's not enough I will try to come up with something else - perhaps air vent directly behind the front apron opening

Werks

Nice write up Mike. The simple solution is going to be for you to pick up one of the LG GT2 front splitters which have big giant brake cooling intakes ducts built into them. It will probably give you a lot more front downforce too!

While at the end of the day I guess total air volume flowing over the rotor is what ultimately matters looking at the duct system and shape of the black plastic air ducts I believe that they are designed in a way that they reduce air velocity and increase air pressure at the outlet. So while air velocity going into the duct intake area is obviously a factor of the speed the vehicle is traveling at I'm not so sure that air velocity at the outlet is key to performance of the brake cooling system. Anthony I'm sure has much more experience working with this kind of stuff with real race cars and it would be interested to hear his thoughts on it.

mikymu

Yes, fluid dynamic is a whole different ball game. What seems like a good idea by eyeball may be totally wrong. If I get a GT2 splitter then I will need much more aggressive rear wing .... gonna stay with what I have for now