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So, my C4 is nearly ready, and one of the last things that needs attention is tires. The car is basically a learning HPDE car, I'm not out there to be fastest on the track, I'm out there to learn to drive the car. Thus, the super sticky cheater tires are out, despite the fact that little Scions running what is nearly a race tire will talk smack. Operating expenses being low and learning quality are what this car is about.
It currently has Bridgestone RE760s, but they're old and worn down(especially the fronts). I've tracked this tire on my father's 911 and liked it overall, it had good traction both in wet and dry, but it did get greasy near the end of the last session of the day. Admittedly, it was hot out, and the Pilot Super Sports on his other 911 also did the same thing.
I was thinking of going with the Cooper RS3-S, it has a decent price advantage over the Bridgestones, and seems to be good overall. However, people say they do not like heat, and that a 20 minute HPDE session might be too much for them. I'm not opposed to the tires getting a linear heat soak, but I'm mostly worried about running a tire that is going to hate the heat and wear out faster because it's getting too hot.
BFG has the Comp2 in my size as well, I've never really heard anyone talk about these. People seem to like them, but I've only seen a handful of non-sponsored reviews.
So those are the 3 options I've seen that look the best. I've sort of decided I don't want to run Sumitomos, simply because they're not really any cheaper than the Coopers, etc. Are there any other tires I should look at? Any opinions on these tires?
I liked the summitos as a "learning" tire - but that was years ago.
I found the tirerack reviews to be helpful way back then.
Unfortunately I've been on the R6 so long and my daily driver Camaro has to run a all-season rather than a summer or ultra high performance tire.
the htrz 2 is what I ran until I upgraded to c5 18" wheels so I could run 18" R6 take offs.
They were a little sketchy on the street with standing water, on the track they were fine.
Kumho XS, take the heat ,wear like iron . I have a set that I put on in may2010 , still going . First session is a little loose , but they come in .
Trackdays aren't about going 100 % so this works for me . Still able to surprise a few folks ...
I used these for my for my first 4-5 events, loved them and they are CHEAP. Maxxis MA-V1, I ran these as my street tires when I moved up to a Nitto NT-05.
Then I bought these as my street tires. At $96 each who cares? They seem great on the street but have no idea how they react to heat on track. Sumitomo A/S P01
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-11-2014 at 05:44 AM.
The Nitto NT-05 can take the abuse all day long. Tires are the most important piece of the car, especially if you're learning how to drive.
If you were only doing this once I could see trying to skimp, but it sounds to me like you plan on going more often.
The reviews on tire rack are useless. "I drive my Scion toaster spiritedly and these feel solid, I've had them 10 days and they have excellent treadwear too."
The Nitto NT-05 can take the abuse all day long. Tires are the most important piece of the car, especially if you're learning how to drive.
If you were only doing this once I could see trying to skimp, but it sounds to me like you plan on going more often.
The reviews on tire rack are useless. "I drive my Scion toaster spiritedly and these feel solid, I've had them 10 days and they have excellent treadwear too."
LOL, so very true. "My Civic hooks with these tires!".
I know the NT05s would be a great tire, but I'm concerned they would be "too good" of a tire for lack of a better explanation. My logic is that by having all this insane amounts of grip, I could make mistakes and the car would just have enough grip that I'd never realize I made the mistake. This may be completely incorrect thinking, I don't really know. But that was my thought process going in.
I checked with my local discount tire, and they actually have the RE760s for significantly cheaper than they are online. $703 out the door and on the car. So I'll probably end up going that route.
How will those 760s take heat ? Chunk with some heat ? I don't know anything of those . Will they heat cycle out ,turn into bricks ? A Hoosier or Kumho 710 has a huge slip angle and will mask a bad Set up , or bad driving till it wears out .
Kumho XS or NT-05 will give good feedback . and some warning before they let go .
FAUEE I've been running the RS3-S on my 07 C6 A6 base coupe since 2012. Things I like about the RS3-S, price 1250 installed, great in the rain and I DD on them. Had over 20k on the first set and still had good tread, but were getting hard for street use. I've never had an alignment check done on the car but they were wearing even.
I feel they're a good learning tire to start on. The only other tires I've run were Firestone wide ovals RFT's. I liked 36psig hot. The first track event day both sets didn't have much grip but got better with use. The first set I ran Hawk HP+ pads and the 2nd set I ran Hawk blues. The Hawks Blues a had to really finesse the brakes for threshold braking. I've had no tire chunking either.
The CONS: letting the small cars that are over tire sized pass me
and wishing I had gripper tires and passing those smaller cars in the twisties. I think the side walls my flex just a little to much but I'm no pro either.
Here's a video of the RS3-S on SPM this year.
FAUEE almost any new tire will better than an old tire. Pick a tire with a wear rating between 200-300 for learning and I think you'll be good for awhile. Plus it's less stress on the suspension points than a sticky tire I think.
Good luck with your choice.
I know the NT05s would be a great tire, but I'm concerned they would be "too good" of a tire for lack of a better explanation. My logic is that by having all this insane amounts of grip, I could make mistakes and the car would just have enough grip that I'd never realize I made the mistake. This may be completely incorrect thinking, I don't really know. But that was my thought process going in.
For just starting out with HPDE's/track days, either the Nitto NT05 or the Kumho XS would be a very good tire. These tires will work even better as you improve your skills. IMHO, when first starting out, tire grip will not be as important as you will not be driving at higher speeds or near the car's limits.
I have NT-05's on my '87 (275/40-17 on 9'5" wide wheels ) and I think they are a pretty good value. I have run these tires for a few years and I do use them for some street use. They will let you know when you reach their limits, they warm up after a couple of laps at the start of a session, and tread life is very good.
If you wind up taking lessons at some driving schools, instructors may want you to limit your speed as a Novice driver. Most schools and events will have structured groups so that drivers with similar skills will be together.
Now for these two tires, tread life may be limited and they may not be the best tires for driving in heavy rain and certainly not on snow or ice. But I think that's pretty standard for tire types like these.
Other street tires may work to start, but it's possible that your driving skills you learn on the track may quickly overpower them. Tires aren't cheap, so selection will be important if you will be limited to a single set of tires/wheels. If your car is not going to be a daily driver, then do look at the Nitto NT-05 or the Kumho XS.
Learn from your instructor, or by following skilled drivers a bit after they pass you to learn, not by whether you spin out or not. Get a grippy street tire that doesn't break the bank. Generally the more siping it has, the less responsive it will be. Those are for all season rain driving, not sport driving. (Btw a softer tire even with wide tread blocks does excellent on wet roads except at freeway speeds)
But getting a video setup is more important. You'll learn as much watching it after as you will while driving. There are some phone apps that will do it on the cheap with a simple suction mount, like Harry's lap timer, or you could just use the phones video recorder.
Although I'd advise against lap timing when you pop your hpde cherry unless you have more self control than the rest of us. Timing will pressure you to drive over your abilities and lose patience with other cars.
Unless you are a real new driver and going slow I would generally suggest the extreme performance summer tires as a good place to start. The RE760 feels pretty good but isn't a track tire. That said, cheap is good. These three videos are are on Wide Ovals, Rivals, and R888s and you'll see the car doing pretty much the same thing, just a bit faster each time.
So I talked with my instructor, and he recommended to just start off with the sticky street tires. He basically said that I'd learn to work with the sticky traction, and that the chassis of the C4 would let me know when I've made a mistake. So I'm gonna go with some NT05s. My major concern going in was chunking the tires up due to overheating. Going with the NT05s alleviates this concern.
Now I need to decide if I want to switch from sawblades or switch to some Camaro SS or Trans Am wheels or something.
Now I need to decide if I want to switch from sawblades or switch to some Camaro SS or Trans Am wheels or something.
Why do you want to switch wheels? The factory sawblades in the 17x9.5" size on all 4 corners will work fine for track days. If you want to use the NT-05's as dedicated track tires, that would make sense but the NT-05 tires can be used on the street.
The nt05s are fine for street, although you'll only get about 15k out of them, minus track wear. They will guilt you into going to the track more, kinda like the soft mud terrains on my Tacoma guilt me into not wheeling more. With that said, tires start getting hard after 4-5 years anyways, so a 40k tire doesn't do you much good if you only drive it a few thousand miles per year.
Why do you want to switch wheels? The factory sawblades in the 17x9.5" size on all 4 corners will work fine for track days. If you want to use the NT-05's as dedicated track tires, that would make sense but the NT-05 tires can be used on the street.
Appearances mostly. I don't really like how the Sawblades look. It's a stupid reason, I know.
Maybe I'll just paint the sawblades black and be done with it, lol.
12-09-2014, 10:03 PM
C4 HPDE Tires
