Racingswh

It does. Thanks for the explanation of how you do it!

Captain Buddha

A bit of a hijack here - can you imagine if this thread was posted on one of the "regular" forums here? Mass chaos, insults, trolling, etc would ensue...the point of my post is that I really appreciate how folks on this subforum keep things level-headed.

Bill32

I go on the C2 forum because I'm restoring mine.

But I NEVER go on another forum besides that one here,

onargaroberts

I know I'm missing something here and I'd like to understand this. When would a driver make these moves in the middle of a corner and I'm assuming the track day lapping that I do and not passing someone deep in a corner in a door-to-door competitive event. (And to be honest, I don't really understand those moves in that special case either.)

And how does lifting OFF the gas unload the front end? Seems like the effect would be slightly the opposite.

SouthernSon

I hope not to further confuse the issue but, rather, give some examples of use: (1) Putnam Park, between T1 and T2, is a great place to downshift to third after the car is settled on the very short straight using left foot for clutch and keeping the right foot on throttle. This is for those that do not wish to H/T at T1. Waiting until after T1 allows one to concentrate on cornering speed and transitioning from braking to throttle. (2) As far as using left foot braking to load the front while floating the throttle, I ran into a great convergence of place/time to do this a couple of years back. At the new AMP I found I had too much speed for the off camber on the wide carousel before the straight. The car was pushing, I was on the edge of pavement and I dared not lift the throttle too much so as not to loosen the rear. If I had known how to left foot brake in an instant, as my friend Jim Painter has since pointed out to me, I may have been able to load both fronts and keep the car on the pavement. My left foot is not so trained so I ended up off the pavement.

jtmck drives a car that has a lot of aero on it, canards hanging off all over the place. His car is usually under much downforce and is not easily upset with changes in driveline loads. I dare say he can do a whole bunch of stuff with throttle and brake in places that a non aero car would quickly go agricultural. As a matter of fact, when I road with him at Putnam I don't think he even thought about any brakes until past brake marker 100. But, if he were tell me that he can drive a non-aero car in almost the same manner, I wouldn't be too quick to discount it.

Racingswh

The Carousel example is exactly where I find my left foot to make the most difference. 2 tracks we drive at in New Jersey have them but they are a little different.

So you're going around the left hand Carousel at Thunderbolt which you enter at about 50-52 MPH coming off a very hard right hander into the section. My right foot is on the gas and the car is sliding to the right. I use my left foot to just drag the brakes a hair and it loads the front tires just enough to bring the car back left giving a straighter shot at the upcoming esses. Otherwise the car pushes right and you have to turn the car too much at the exit of the Carousel and up into the esses and momentum is lost. Cars can be the same speed as I am all the way through and if they are to my right at exit I pick up 5 to 6 cars at the entry of the esses without fail. If I overdrive the car in that section I am slower. Max speed in our cars Viper ACR or C6Z is about 60 - 62 mph in the Carousel. Most go through it about 52-55 mph depending on available grip.

Lightning is a much faster right hand carousel. My speed is right around 80-84 mph in the corner. On approach to it is a downhill straight and in either car the Viper ACR or the C6Z it doesn't require a downchange so it's all with my left foot and then if I overdrive it in I use the brakes with my left foot to tuck the nose towards the apex and pick up the throttle seamlessly so the chassis is upset the very minimum amount possible.

I have made ALL THE MISTAKES you can learning how to left foot brake. I have SMASHED the brakes at corner exit thinking it was the clutch while at the same time tearing the gearshift lever out of gear and trying to jam it into the higher gear which doesn't work all that great!!. I have mistaken the clutch for the brake at entry to the brake zone and promptly soiled myself thinking I for a brief moment I had no brakes. It's not easy at all and took me a long time to do it in a way that I can now see lap time improvement over the way I used to drive.

Interesting to note that when watching Fernando Alonso he uses his right foot to brake even in a paddle shift car while Felipe Massa clearly used his left foot to brake in the same car.


Rubens Barrichello used his right foot to brake in the F1 car while MS used his left foot on the brakes. Hence it was difficult for Rubens to use the backup car as from what I understand it was setup for Michael.

The Viper test driver in the paddle shift race car used his right foot only to brake when he was at VIR.

I just assumed ALL top level drivers used their left foot to brake and learned to my surprise that this is not the case. More on that can be found in Ross Bentley's books if interested. He's a proponent of left foot braking.

SouthernSon

My buddy, Jim Painter, was riding with me last year on the NCM MSP track when I mistook the clutch for the brake while coming a little too hot out of the 'sink hole'. We did a neat little off track just off the edge. I figure I might ought to practice in more forgiving areas with the left foot, maybe one of these days I'll put the technique in my tool box.

onargaroberts

Balancing the car in a carousel turn make sense to me. Although I'm guessing that it takes a finely calibrated left foot because if your dragging the brake to keep some weight bias forward and, at the same time, applying a bit of power with your right foot, it seems like a little too much left or right foot and the back end will start coming around. I have a right handed carousel to play with at Road America. I'm pretty steady state through there until I get the front end pointed at the last apex. Then I can start adding power and let the car run out to the edge. If the car doesn't want to point down to the apex, I "breath" off the gas, the differential opens a bit allowing the car to turn and then I can get back to exiting the corner. (I'm guessing the new C7 electronic differential knows what to do based on steering angle so it may be a different feel through there with the new car.) I may give my left foot a try next year at slower speeds but, then again, my size 14 shoes cover a lot of pedal area. That may be a problem for left foot braking but I have no trouble covering both brake and gas with my right foot for heel and toe.

Bill32

You're correct it was 6:43 a.m. and I wasn't paying attention to my typing.

Soloontario

I have been working on left foot braking if I don't have to downshift (and haven't got it right yet). It seems sig faster but lap times don't show it. Likely on the brakes too long.

OTOH, I have a synchomesh stock tranny and absolutely use the clutch on downshifts and heel and toe to the best of my ability.

el es tu

With paddles I get to left foot brake all the time - one of the great luxuries of running the 6l80 At first it was weird getting used to it, but now its the natural thing thing to do even in normal driving.

The only downside is readjusting my brain the first couple of minutes after getting into a 3 pedal car...

wtb-z

Lifting (normal thing to do at various times to adjust the attitude of the car) is not the same as disconnecting the drive train (clutch in). The former is normal, the latter is only going to be a good idea if the car is below the limit.

krisa9977

. Disconnecting the drive train is not a good idea, especially in a corner.
If you pressed the clutch in a corner and still didn't spin out, it means that your are driving below the limit or your car has too much understeer. Not with RWD car.

jtmck

Arte,
I must be driving below my limit, right?

krisa9977

I'm sure your are driving at YOUR limit, but not at your car's limit. Or your car has too much understeer.

SouthernSon

Krisa, don't be sure about that until you see Jim on the track. Or, perhaps you might want to look at some of his 'one-off' engineering designs; some of which have been profiled in various automotive magazines. Seriously.

theseal

Automatic or paddle always left.

Manual, try in autocross and on the street first.

If you are 10/10ths and blow it you're off.

On track, always left unless heel and toe before entry

But on track it may not be as big a benefit as in autox

If you get good at it, you can work the car harder than a right foot brakes.

tytek

I would love to go for a ride with you, Jim, in your car at one the 1010ths events this year. I think that I can learn a lot by just observing you 'in your office'. Of course, if you wouldn't mind taking me out for a few laps...

Arte has aleady volunteered to give me some coaching, and I am pretty excited to take him up on it next time we happen to be at the same event.

I am amazed how many really cool people I have met at the track, and on this site. All of them are very passionate about cars, driving, and helping others.

krisa9977

I really don't want to see Jim disengaging the clutch at the mid corner. I, probably, wouldn't be talking to anyone if I disengaged the clutch on corner entry, driving 500 hp car especially when it was raining at the Ring. Very dangerous advise.

jtmck

Anytime.......
Maybe we could follow Arte around a few laps.....