Deuce Man

So getting ready for HPDE season, and thinking I need to upgrade my brake pads. Currently running an '07 w/ Z51 package with Hawk HP+ pads for my track setup. The HP+ pads have an effective temperature range a little lower than I think I need (I was heating up enough to get fade at the end of sessions last year). I am considering one of the following set-ups:

1. Hawk HP Race pads - these are new pads, have a temp rating similar to the Carbotech XP8's, but I am guessing no one has experience with these.

2. Carbotech XP10's (front) / XP8's (rear) - I know a lot of folks run XP12/XP10, but curious if anyone is running this mix? I am on run-flats, so not sure I would benefit much from XP12/XP10 setup, so maybe a 10/8 may be a good idea. Or even 8's all the way around?

3. Carbotech XP12/XP10 - As mentioned above, is this too much brake?

4. Hawk Blues - Is this too much brake?

Ideally, I am planning on driving to/from the track. Not sure is the Hawk Blues or XP12/XP10 setup is asking for trouble doing that. Also as mentioned, I think my tires will limit my braking (new tires for next year, but not this year). Open to hear folks thoughts/experiences, or other suggestions.

avizandum

What tires are you running?

Deuce Man

Michelin Pilot Sport 2 run flats.

strano@stranoparts.com

No such thing as Hawk "HP Race" pads. The HPS and HP+ are not race pads. They still make the HT-10, and now have what the actually call "street-race", but I'd highly doubtful they will be all that track worthy.

Hawk Blues, yeck. They are old, old tech and hard as hell on rotors. I don't know that race pads (at least a mild one) is overkill as stopping is pretty much the thing I want to make sure I can do on a road course.

If you want better pads and want them to be dual purpose and not eat the rotors then I'd recommend trying Ferodo DS2500's. They aren't cheap, but they will take track work (they actually call them a 'track day' pad), and are AWESOME on the street. Mostly they won't eat up rotors. They are NOT race pads, and you might at some point need race pads at which point I'd not recommend street driving them a lot.

For race pads I tend to run Hawk DTC stuff, I have 60's on the front of my A-Sedan Mustang right now because of cost and ease of getting them.

You have no shortage of options, the question is what you want to compromise. The track performance, the street in terms of rotor wear and noise? Depends on how hard the tracks you run are on brakes, etc.

I have Ferodo, Hawk, Raysbestos ST-41, 43, and 47 compounds all for the Z06 brakes. If you want a set of HP+, I happen to have a very lightly (like 150 miles or so) used set for both ends of the car sitting on my shelf, and the cost is somewhat less than new. :0

I will say this, I have direct experience with both the standard C5/C6 caliper setups and the Z06 stuff even on the same pad compounds. If the HP+ were working for you on the z51 stuff but you were getting to the edge, they will be somewhat better with the Z06 brakes. Again, in the long run eventually you'll want something else.

Deuce Man

Just to clarify further, I swap the pads out for track day events. I actually swap the stock rotors w/ DBA 4000's (slotted), Hawk HP+, and I bleed the fluid every time before heading to the track. So regular street use is not a concern becuase as soon as I get home I swap back to stock everything on the brakes. The only times the pads will be used for "street" driving is to and from the track, so rotor wear isn't as big of a concern. I just know I am on the brink of using what the HP+ has to offer, and I am confident this season I will find that threshold faster than I did last season. I was really leaning towards the Carbotechs, but just wasn't sure if 10/8 or 12/10 is the better setup. As I said before, I imagine that my tires are going to be the limiting factor (if they aren't already), so I find it hard to believe that a 12/10 setup would be of any more benefit that the 10/8.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

You want to run XP10 front and XP8 rear. Give me a call at 216-780-8825 and I will set you up or place order direct on website. XP12 is to much for that tire.

fmcokc

I used to be a Carbotech guy. Won a national championship on them in fact. Used them on vettes, mustangs, miatas and several other race cars. Then I discovered Raybestos. Try the Raybestos st-43's with those tires. They are very consistent over a very broad temp range. They will seem a bit grabby at first but you will get used to them and they last forever.

0SpeedFreaksUSA

I don't doubt the XP10 would still produce friction levels high enough to lock up (or engage ABS) deep into the session BUT the Corvette is a fast, powerful car that isn't exactly "light"- meaning it's not hard to put a lot of heat into the brakes. I believe the XP10/8 combo would "work" for you but I think you may start to push them above their optimum temp range and my concern is the wear rates you could see using that combo, even on a MPS2. I think XP12/10 is the more appropriate combo to use from Carbotech but obviously the choice is yours.

I think its also worth it to take a look at Cobalt XR2/XR3 and PFC 11. In my experience the longevity was a little better than the Carbotechs for both at the trade off of slightly reduced modulation.

Here are some links for you:
Carbotech XP12 (Front)
Carbotech XP10 (Front)
Carbotech XP10 (Rear)
Carbotech XP8 (Rear)

Cobalt XR2 (Front)
Cobalt XR3 (Rear)

PFC 11 (Front)
PFC 11 (Rear)
PFC 01 (Rear)

We have compounds from Endless, Hawk and Raybestos available as well. As always we have special discounts for our friends here on CF! Please let me know if I can answer any questions.

-Matt M.

Deuce Man

WHy did you remove the links you posted yesterday?

ErnieN85

Hawk Street/race is a new pad compound. and yes it will hold up better than the HP+. I tried them last fall and found my next got to pads. That said I do not at present use slicks. so I don't need as much pad as others running slicks. However I have been able to mess up HP+ pads pretty bad!
If your new these are a great pad. If or when you start using slicks, you will need something more

flyby763

I thought the hawk street/race pads were geared more toward autocross rather than hpde events?

ErnieN85

the HP+ were rated to 800* the new street/race are rated to 1200*
so they are much more race then previous pads (HP+)

0SpeedFreaksUSA

To be fair there is much more to how track capable a pad is than it's claimed temp range. For example the Stoptech street performance pads have a claimed maximum operating temp of 1300*F but friction levels drop well before that temp and I would never recommend anyone beyond a beginner type level on street tires use them on a track. I've used them on track before after my usual track compound wore to backing plates and I was forced to swap pads and drive on my street pads. It's a good thing those pads are inexpensive too because I went through more than half the pad thickness in just 2-3 20 minute sessions letting off and doing cool down laps after every couple hot laps. They were great for a street pad but compared to a real track compound I'll just say they were "less than ideal" and leave it at that…

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

I do not deal with Hawk products but, I do know about them and what they are made from. The Carbotech XP10 front and XP8 rear will be more than efficient for you. The XP12 really needs a R comp tire to work perfectly. With your street tires stick with 10 & 8 better wear and more longevity. If you have some kind of aftermarket cooling ducts than we can maybe consider an XP12 but, at this point XP10 and 8 is your best bet. Can be driven on the street with no issue besides noise and will work like a champ at the track for you.

ErnieN85

Comments like this one is one of the reason people (me included)
tend to not advise here or any where.
there are so many variables to brake pad selection,tires and quite a few other elements. I have quite a bit of experience with Hawk, Carbotech, porterfield & cobalt.
all of these work very well. The track versions of all tend to be very loud when used on the street (driven to the track).
What I found with the Hawk new street/race is that they did not get noisey on the drive to and from the track and held up to my use.
cooling ducts are very important when using pads toward the street end of the selections.
Track pads have more bite (some times to much with street tires), they also generate a lot of heat causing dust boots to burn & melt along with tie rod end boots & ball joint boots. not to mention boiling brake fluid.
if you can use the brakes less not only will you be faster but also not have as many of these problems,

Deuce Man

I actually just bought the Lambert competition cooling ducts recently and will be installing them soon. I actually bought them thinking they would help extend the life of the HP+ pads a couple laps each session (also knowing that when I step up to the next level of pads they would be helpful).

So does teh brake cooling changes anyone's opinions. I'll be honest, with the price of the Raybestos, I am very tempted to give them a shot. It seems like brake pads end up being a very personal decision. Some folks swear by Hawk, some by Carbotech..... I should probably give them all a shot, but just trying to save the money needed in that approach.

ErnieN85

raybestos are very good also no personal experience with them though agood friend did and liked them although i believe he is using wilwood H now

fmcokc

Sorry it must have removed them when I edited the post

http://www.randallraceparts.com/product-p/r731.15.htm
http://www.randallraceparts.com/product-p/r732.16.htm

Deuce Man

OK, so seriously at this price, are these per pad? There is no way it can be that cheap for the entire front axle right?

RX82Z06

Yes, those prices are per axle. I spoke with them for the same reason as I did not believe their internet prices.