0Todd TCE

Please be sure when you "drain" the fluid that you never let the reservoir run dry. Meaning a simple drain and refill will never work. It's fine to open up all four bleeders if you want but as the fluid goes down in the reservoir (and it'll be slow) you'll need to replenish it. If not what happens is you induce air into not only the lines but the ABS pump system. That's the one others are talking about having to burp.

Commonly the fluid flows until a noticeable color change is detected. A bit more and then perhaps some light pressure bleeding for good measure. *Romping on the pedal with your biggest buddy won't do you any better...bleeding is about displacement, not pressure.

FWIW the HPS or HP+ pads are not worthy track parts at all. But I think you've already learned that one.

urslooow

mikeCsix

Some good replies already, also not mentioned is the possibility of micro bubbles. If you look closely at the brake fluid draining out you may see some very small bubbles - smaller than champagne bubbles. These are tough to get rid of and unfortunately I do not have a procedure for you that might work. I had this problem on a car and ended up selling it before I found a solution. I flushed a lot of fluid through the system and the problem didn't go away and have since become a big fan of gravity flushing the system.

If you had a leaking seal, you would know it by the tell tale amounts of fluid leaking by the seal.

BOTTLE FEDvette

Thank you guys very much...I did rebuild all my calipers hints the drain and fill. But I had an autoX today and got the brakes nice and hot and bleed them and this seemed to fix my issue.

tw78911sc

Is the icing mode a result of too much brake and it resulting in lockup and the ABS cycling ? I had this happen at VIR a few times in a 15 Camaro 1LE with the Cadillac 6 pot brembos and Raybestos ST45 and air ducting to spindle from front grill, and Now again on my C6Z with air ducting to spindle from front grill. Like another said at 150mph into a 35 mph haripin corner. No fade, pedal firm all day, but the sporadic icing was not fun. Having to modulate at threshold braking with a unpredictable ABS leaves me wanting to turn the ABS off. Should I try a pad with less initial bite?

NSFW

Related question: Is "ice mode" still a problem with the C7 too?

JRitt@essex

A couple of points.

1. Hawk HP+ or HPS pads are not sufficient track pads for a C6 Z06, regardless of what has been done to the car. They don't have a high enough max operating temperature to be effective. You risk pad fade (brake pedal remains hard, but the car doesn't slow down, and they'll burn up very quickly once they reach a certain temp. You also risk smearing the melting pad material all over your discs and potentially ruining them.

2. The root of your issue is further down the chain however...your discs. If your discs are running super hot, your pads will as well, ans so will your pistons, caliper body, and fluid. When that happens, you also throw fluid fade into the mix as a possibility (brake fluid boils and gives you a soft pedal). It sounds like that is what happened in your case.

As mentioned, a C6Z benefits in many, many ways from a front brake kit upgrade. The rear is a 'nice to have,' but the front is almost a must if you plan to car with any regularity. As Bill D. mentioned, you will save money over the long haul with a front BBK. The more you track the car, the more quickly your brake kit will pay for itself.

We have countless owners here on this forum who have told us our BBK was the best mod they ever made to their car for the track. They save a large amount of time, money, headaches, and scary moments.

If you'd like some help on figuring out which option best fit your needs, you can feel free to PM or email me at any time.

You can see all of the options for a C6Z here:
https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...iron%20&%20427

Our systems aren't the least expensive, but they are the most robust on the market, and they retain a great deal of value on the used market when you sell your car someday. They truly are an investment that makes a great deal of financial sense when you look at the long-term running costs over the course of a few years.

BOTTLE FEDvette

Email sent

Bill Dearborn

I haven't experienced it with my C7Z but did experience it with the C6Z both with the stock brakes and the Wilwoods. Some of that may have been due to problems I was having with tires moving on the rims under hard braking. With the C6Z if the VIR front straight speed got over 140 I had to anticipate ICE Mode. I was able to get to 150 some times and brake fine and then other times it would trigger at just over 140. Visited the run off area off T1 three different times.

At the end of the back straight I could be over 150 and the car would just slow with no issues. Only the front straight seemed to bother it.

A few years before with the stock brakes I had issues going into the bus stop, the toe and turn 1.

All of those incidents were accompanied by some tire slippage on the rims so I thought maybe the ABS was being confused by the slippage.

Bill

spearfish25

What would cause angled pad wear on the front outside pads on a C7Z caliper? I have the iron brakes running stock rotors. This weekend after a two day track weekend using ST43 pads, I noticed the wear on the outboard front pads is greater towards the outside edge (towards the retainer pins) and is still quite thick nearest the hat. First I saw it on the outside pad on the driver's side. Figured the pad had an issue or there was a caliper issue. Then I went to the passenger side and the outboard pad had the same problem. Inside pads on either side looked fine and wore evenly. This is my third set of pads and the first two didn't do this. Ideas?

*after finding more info, it appears I have radial taper impacting only the outside pads of both front calipers. This is the first track event I've ever seen this happen on this car/setup and its probably seen 10-15 days of events. I don't feel like I changed my braking habits at all since prior events. The fact it's equal on both front calipers seems to argue against an isolated equipment issue. Whatever is happening is affecting both calipers.

NSFW

Is the bedding process for new pads strictly about treating the surface of the brake disc, or does it also result in a longer-lasting pad, similar to the way heat cycling helps tires last longer?

Thanks!

mikeCsix

Quick answer, a proper bedding process treats both the pad and the rotor by placing a fine layer of pad material on the rotor. This will help the rotor last longer along with the pads. When the pads run too cold, they tend to crumble (there are photos of this on the forum) and glaze and the rotor squeals.

So yes, the pads and rotors should last longer with a proper bedding process plus will increase your ability to brake and modulate your braking ability.

Lastly, one of the reasons I like Carbotech is compatible pad materials between products, you can use street pads all week, swap for track pads for the weekend fun, and minimize the bedding process for track days, plus not have to worry about contaminating pads with different pad materials, plus not having to pull the rotors and sand off the street pad material prior to using your track pads.

badhabit_wb

I agree on the Carbotechs for compatibility. I switched to the st-43's and run them on the track and street. Not getting any squeal or anything but I'm guessing my rotor wear will be more. That said I never wear the rotors out anyway they end up cracking from Hpde's and it makes things a lot easier not having to switch the brakes once or twice a month.

NSFW

That sounds like using the wrong pads for the job, or driving too hard on the right pads before they're up to temperature. How is bedding going to change that?

The question was whether heat-cycling the pads helps them last longer, as opposed to just driving them hard right out of the box.

Let me put it this way...

Scenario 1: Install new tires. Get them heated up, then remove them, let them cool and sit for 24 hours. Install new pads. Go through the bedding process, then let them cool and sit 24 hours. Then install both and go racing.

Scenario 2: Install new tires and new pads and go racing. (Assume for the sake of discussion that the rotors were already bedded with the same kind of pad.)

The tires from #2 should wear faster than the tires in #1, because the #1 set was heat-cycled. Does that hold true for pads as well?

Bill Dearborn

Not the same for pads as it is for tires. The pads need to be heated sufficiently to bake the resins out of the pads.

From the StopTech White Papers:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...-system-bed-in

"When a system has both new rotors and pads, there are two different objectives for bedding-in a performance brake system: heating up the brake rotors and pads in a prescribed manner, so as to transfer pad material evenly onto the rotors; and maturing the pad material, so that resins which are used to bind and form it are ‘cooked' out of the pad.

The first objective is achieved by performing a series of stops, so that the brake rotor and pad material are heated steadily to a temperature that promotes the transfer of pad material onto the brake rotor friction surface. There is one pitfall in this process, however, which must be avoided. The rotor and, therefore, the vehicle should not be brought to a complete stop, with the brakes still applied, as this risks the non-uniform transfer of pad material onto the friction surface.

The second objective of the bedding-in process is achieved by performing another set of stops, in order to mature the pad itself. This ensures that resins which are used to bind and form the pad material are ‘cooked' out of the pad, at the point where the pad meets the rotor's friction surface.

The bed-in process is not complete until both sets of stops have been performed."

Further on in the paper the following is stated:
"Racers will note that, when a pad is bedded-in properly, there will be approximately 2mm (0.1 inch) of the pad edge near the rotor, on which the paint will have turned to ash, or the color of the pad will have changed to look as though it has been overheated."

This happens when bedding in the Ceramic brakes on a C6/C7. The pads will smoke a lot during the process and once finished will look powdery gray.

Bill

thebishman

A well ‘burnished’ CCM pad:

NSFW

Thanks guys. So the pads don't cooling and curing between bedding them and really using them. That's reassuring because my friends and I have a Mustang that we race in Lucky Dog, and since it isn't street legal and rarely gets driven outside of track days, we've been bedding pads during practice laps. It seems to work, but I've always wondered if it compromises pad life.

I bedded new rotors and Carbotech 1521s in my Corvette a couple weeks ago, as per the instructions, and I'd forgotten what a pain the butt it is. I drove 45 minutes out of town and got it done during breaks in traffic but it was still on the edge of my comfort zone. There aren't many places near me anymore where both ends of the speed range are safe... I used to a have a pair of freeway interchanges that were great for this, but they got rearranged a bit so you can no longer cycle through them repeatedly.

KNSBrakes

Street pads do not need aggressive bedding to work properly.

With all of the bedding questions and articles on line I get more and more instances of users over doing it and causing more problems.

tw78911sc

Most street pads have been heat burnished as the last part of the mfg process since a normal person would never do it themselves.

froggy47

When I do street pads I make 4-5 stops (not FULL stops) from 60 is and call it good, never have issues. They get a little hot is all & I smell them a little.



Done this for years on all the family cars.