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Well after 2 failures of my power steering system at the track I am looking from something much much more reliable.
What are you C3 track guys running for steering systems.
Current setup is a ZZ383 with a GM serpentine for accessories.
I also have limited space between the headers and OEM steering box. I had to grind a bit of the steering box housing just to get the driver side header installed with a little dent in the header as well.
I need something that can take the abuse of road track driving and doesn't leak ever.
I gone thru 5 PS pumps due to leaking problems, with seal kits also failing at some point. Is there a PS Pump designed for track use ?
They have leaked from the PS pump to reservoir seal and from the pulley bearing seal.
The hose failures were with the high pressure line from the PS pump to the control valve, this I believe is due to the design where the hose moves back and forth by the pump as the control valve moves the steering left and right.
Last edited by cagotzmann; 06-05-2016 at 10:39 AM.
The rebuild route is what I am trying to avoid since the stock setup as been a problem since I started driving on a road course. I am hoping to find something that can take more abuse.
I run the stock PS set up, with stock type accessory belt drive. Same pump and valve for at least 15 years now, yes it leaks but so does everything else (not severely). I have popped two hoses over about 13 or 14 years.
Admittedly, the car is 99% autocross but has seen it's share of track days as well. The hose failures were during autocross events.
Does the serpentine setup speed up the PS pump shaft rpm?
On the PS pump did you enlarge the output hole slightly?, It has been many years since I did it on my C2. As I recall, you find the largest size drill bit that will fit in the opening, then you go 1 size up and enlarge the hole. Do not go any larger. This will allow more fluid to flow throughout the system with less pressure. Like Chris said they all leak slightly.
How strong are you? GM used to sell those cars without the power steering assist. With non assisted steering the tie rods were installed in holes in the spindle that were further out so the driver had more leverage. You could dump the steering assist and leave the tie rods in the holes used by the assisted steering and drive with manual steering. While moving the effort shouldn't be too bad but in the paddock with really wide tires you might need to bulk up across the arms and shoulders. People did drive them like that back in the day. Back in 1971 I seriously considered buying a big block 400 HP tri power 69 without power steering before I found my 69 390 horse car with power steering.
Dropping the power steering will get weight off the front, reduce HP losses and make the car more reliable. All you need is big arms.
Does the serpentine setup speed up the PS pump shaft rpm?
That is a good point, while the original pully dia is 5 5/8" the pully on the serpentine system is about 6.5" which should make it slower, but the pulley on the crank I would need to check it may also be larger.
I am going to calculate the possible RPM Difference.
This is where the hose blows each time. This seems to be the weak point since the ram moves back and forth with a stationary connection at the PS pump.
On the PS pump did you enlarge the output hole slightly?, It has been many years since I did it on my C2. As I recall, you find the largest size drill bit that will fit in the opening, then you go 1 size up and enlarge the hole. Do not go any larger. This will allow more fluid to flow throughout the system with less pressure. Like Chris said they all leak slightly.
When I went to the serpentine system I moved the pressure relief valve from the original PS pump to the new unit. The serpentine system came with the PS pump from a 92 Camaro which I Believe runs at a higher pressure. in 78 it runs 850-1100 PSI max and I believe the 92 Camaro pressure is 1100+
How strong are you? GM used to sell those cars without the power steering assist. With non assisted steering the tie rods were installed in holes in the spindle that were further out so the driver had more leverage. You could dump the steering assist and leave the tie rods in the holes used by the assisted steering and drive with manual steering. While moving the effort shouldn't be too bad but in the paddock with really wide tires you might need to bulk up across the arms and shoulders. People did drive them like that back in the day. Back in 1971 I seriously considered buying a big block 400 HP tri power 69 without power steering before I found my 69 390 horse car with power steering.
Dropping the power steering will get weight off the front, reduce HP losses and make the car more reliable. All you need is big arms.
Bill
Well when the PS hose blew at the track It was almost impossible for me to control the car without power assist. I almost put it in the wall.
There is considerably more resistance to moving the steering wheel when the PS goes out vs having no power steering. If you autocross, you will find it is very hard to run without PS but on a road course it is not that bad. If you had a C2 you would really know the difference at about 130 mph, without PS, the steering wheel would turn rather freely--as the front end started to lift.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
I would get rid of the rack and go Borgeson. Not sure it solves your current problem but I got tired of leaky slaves, etc. My Borgeson with an LS1 Turn One pump has been good thus far both in Autocross and Road Courses.
I would get rid of the rack and go Borgeson. Not sure it solves your current problem but I got tired of leaky slaves, etc. My Borgeson with an LS1 Turn One pump has been good thus far both in Autocross and Road Courses.
I looked at this and I am not sure on 2 items.
1. Will it fit since my headers required #1 tube to be dented to clear the stock steering box.
2. what's the issue about collapsing the steering column. Is this reversible or required ?
Does the LS1 turn One pump use the same mounting 3 bolts as the stock PS pump ?
Well when the PS hose blew at the track It was almost impossible for me to control the car without power assist. I almost put it in the wall.
Move the tie rod out to the outer hole on the spindle and see how that works without any steering assist. Yes, you will have to turn the steering wheel more to turn the car the same amount but maybe the reliability increase might be worth it. The stock C3 steering assist was first put into production back in 1953 when Chevy's still had king pins and it is a little antiquated nowadays.
I would get rid of the rack and go Borgeson. Not sure it solves your current problem but I got tired of leaky slaves, etc. My Borgeson with an LS1 Turn One pump has been good thus far both in Autocross and Road Courses.
This.
Thousands of these conversions running now. The header clearance is an issue if your tubes are 1 7/8" or larger and usually requires a dimple in the header tube.
And seriously, with enough caster the non-power steering cars are not hard to steer.
Well I tried another PS Pump. Instead of the AC Delco unit I tried a Cardone rebuild unit.
Cardone rebuilt units.
1st leaked from the pulley bearing
2nd leaked from the pulley bearing and made a whining noise.
So much for USA Made.
I am back to the mexico AC Delco unit. I replaced seals to see it I could fix it.
This was the interesting thing. I measured the case temp of the Cardone unit vs the AC Delco unit.
Cardone Temp = 276 Degree's very hot vs 168 degree's AC Delco
So far no leaks but the biggest concern is the high pressure hose. I am now using a NAPA (Made in Mexico) I gave up on the USA Made one from Mid America and the last hose from Corvette America.
Starting to look like Made in USA is like made in China.
Either use the Borgeson or go to Duntov Motors and use their very pricey one. I myself am going standard steering. The GM power steering is too vague at speed and as you have learned quite troublesome.
06-05-2016, 10:25 AM
C3 1978 steering issues at the track.
