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C6 Z06 aero lift ?

Old 04-10-2017, 10:37 AM
  #141  
STANG KILLA SS
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well thought id add my experience to this thread.
after my first expereince in the z06 at TWS, i was noticing the car was dancing a TON on the front stretch (150-155mph) compared to my old 4th gen camaro. wheel was dancing in my hands and the car was jumping left to right as much as half a lane. and a bit of a floaty light feeling.
so after reading this thread i decided to try to remove the 3 peice air dam under the radiator.
the center section was a little tougher to remove than i was expecting. luckily i had experience with removing the bumper when i put the splitter/bumper reinforcement and fog ducts in.
so went back to TWS this weekend without it. and i believe i noticed a difference. it wasnt like i was glued to the track with splitters and canards, but i didnt feel as much of the light steering, dancing, etc. i think it helped.
im currently running a extended zr1 rear spoiler and no front splitter, just the stock z06 black plastic bumper extention.

i didnt pay as much attention to water and oil temps on my first visit so i cant really compare with and without air damn for cooling. i was also tip toeing around on my first visit, and was alot more comfortable and pushing really hard the second visit. so wouldnt be a fair comparison anyway.

outside temps were 85, water temps were getting to 240, and oil to 265, then i would take cool down laps.
Old 04-10-2017, 06:36 PM
  #142  
AzDave47
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Aero balance is to the back creating even more lift in front than stock with the extended ZR1 rear spoiler. You need ZR1 style front splitter with the fascia brace installed for your speeds.

Water and oil temps are fine at that, oil particularly. I'd be happy with both. Stock I ran 245/285 now with HCI and DeWitts radiator I'm 245/290 with the two side pieces of the air dam gone (4"brake cooling from sides of front grill) and the center section cut about half height.

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS
well thought id add my experience to this thread.
after my first expereince in the z06 at TWS, i was noticing the car was dancing a TON on the front stretch (150-155mph) compared to my old 4th gen camaro. wheel was dancing in my hands and the car was jumping left to right as much as half a lane. and a bit of a floaty light feeling.
so after reading this thread i decided to try to remove the 3 peice air dam under the radiator.
the center section was a little tougher to remove than i was expecting. luckily i had experience with removing the bumper when i put the splitter/bumper reinforcement and fog ducts in.
so went back to TWS this weekend without it. and i believe i noticed a difference. it wasnt like i was glued to the track with splitters and canards, but i didnt feel as much of the light steering, dancing, etc. i think it helped.
im currently running a extended zr1 rear spoiler and no front splitter, just the stock z06 black plastic bumper extention.

i didnt pay as much attention to water and oil temps on my first visit so i cant really compare with and without air damn for cooling. i was also tip toeing around on my first visit, and was alot more comfortable and pushing really hard the second visit. so wouldnt be a fair comparison anyway.

outside temps were 85, water temps were getting to 240, and oil to 265, then i would take cool down laps.
Old 04-11-2017, 02:15 PM
  #143  
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ive got the fascia brace already installed. probly build my own flat splitter. or if i get lazy get one of the cheap ebay zr1 splitters.

at what oil temp should i do some cool down laps? i max oil temps before im putting the motor at risk?
with my camaro it was a case of what you dont know cant hurt you, ie no oil temp gauge, i just kept a eye on water temps. so i dont have any points of reference for oil temp.
Old 04-11-2017, 02:34 PM
  #144  
AzDave47
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Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS
ive got the fascia brace already installed. probly build my own flat splitter. or if i get lazy get one of the cheap ebay zr1 splitters.

at what oil temp should i do some cool down laps? i max oil temps before im putting the motor at risk?
with my camaro it was a case of what you dont know cant hurt you, ie no oil temp gauge, i just kept a eye on water temps. so i dont have any points of reference for oil temp.
Oil temp depends on what oil you run. M1 5W-30 Dexos max 265*, M1 0W-40 OK over 300*, Others I am not sure but I have run Amsoil ZRod 10W-30 to 290*

C7Z06's have seen water temps up around 260*, the highest I've run my C6 Z06 is 245* and I'd not want to go higher before cooldown. I saw that stock and also HCIE with DeWitts radiator.
Old 04-11-2017, 03:51 PM
  #145  
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im running Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 full syn.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2330040
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2566898

however lately ive been toping it off with Gibbs LS30 after sessions just cause i had a few quarts of it left over from my LS1 4th gen. so im probly running somewhere around a 5w37

but for future i wouldnt mind knowing max oil temps for the T6 5w40
(sorry for getting off aero lift topic)
Old 04-11-2017, 06:55 PM
  #146  
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My 2006 C6 Z06 was rock solid at fairly high speeds. It was totally stock. I sold my fascia brace to STANG KILLA SS - I was gonna put a ZR1 splitter on it, but after putting in the 4th LS7 I babied it until I traded it in on my current C7 Z06 and never did anything to the stock aero.

The car ran a lot at Daytona over the years (well...it's my "home track"!!) and it was always firmly planted and never squirrelly in the least.

In the video below (from way back in 2008) You can see coming into the Bus Stop at 160+mph the car is solid, but the track is actually flat in that area.

As I come around the 31° banking of NASCAR T4 and onto the front of the tri-oval at 155 the track flattens out and I get up to 170 where I enter a left turn to cross the S/F line at 175. The S/F line area of the track is banked at 18° and you can see the left steering wheel input and the right lateral G on the circular G display.

Bottom line - in my experience my stock C6 Z06 was always absolutely solidly firmly planted at fairly high speeds, even in a slight turn at 175mph.

As has been said in all the discussion up to this point, if you are going to add aero components or change the airflow patterns, make sure you do the front and rear together to keep the aero balanced properly.


.

Last edited by BEZ06; 04-11-2017 at 07:03 PM.
Old 04-12-2017, 01:45 AM
  #147  
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Did you say you replaced your LS7 three times?!?
Old 04-12-2017, 12:38 PM
  #148  
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I know right! 4th engine. Yikes. And he was just using it to take granny to church on Sundays too!
Old 04-12-2017, 12:43 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by harrydirty
Did you say you replaced your LS7 three times?!?
Yep!!

The first time it went was at about 48,000 total miles, probably 5,000 of that on the track. I came in from a session and told my wife: "Wow - this thing is really running GREAT!!" Nest session out BOOM! It blew a big hole in the left side of the block. I'm NEVER gonna say how good something seems to be running in the future!!!

I bought a new crate LS7 and ever since it was installed it was hard to start - I think it had a 100,000 mile 3 year warranty. It turned over slowly - like something internal was binding up. The dealership said I needed a battery, so I had them replace the one that I knew was good. It still turned over in a strained manner, but ran okay after it got started. Oil pressure and everything else indicated okay, but I felt something was wrong.

I drove this second engine about 500 miles on the street before taking it to the track, and when I did it pretty promptly seized up.

I had a helluva time getting them to replace it under warranty, but they finally did.

Third engine - same thing!!!!!!! Hard to start and it seized up on the track just like the second one!!

I had to contact a couple people in Michigan to finally get another engine under warranty. It ran pretty good from day one, so I babied it and only drove it on the street until I traded it on my C7.

There's a TSB out about cleaning out the dry-sump tank and ALL the oil lines when replacing an engine. I think maybe they never fully flushed the oil system thoroughly, and little bits of junk were left to circulate around in the engine, and that they probably got into bearings, etc. Or, maybe the crate engines weren't built properly in the first place.

So, yep - I thought I got pretty good service out of the first one, but the second and third were crap! I hope whoever gets it with the fourth engine in it gets some decent life out of it!!

.
Old 04-12-2017, 01:09 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by BEZ06
Yep!!

The first time it went was at about 48,000 total miles, probably 5,000 of that on the track. I came in from a session and told my wife: "Wow - this thing is really running GREAT!!" Nest session out BOOM! It blew a big hole in the left side of the block. I'm NEVER gonna say how good something seems to be running in the future!!!

I bought a new crate LS7 and ever since it was installed it was hard to start - I think it had a 100,000 mile 3 year warranty. It turned over slowly - like something internal was binding up. The dealership said I needed a battery, so I had them replace the one that I knew was good. It still turned over in a strained manner, but ran okay after it got started. Oil pressure and everything else indicated okay, but I felt something was wrong.

I drove this second engine about 500 miles on the street before taking it to the track, and when I did it pretty promptly seized up.

I had a helluva time getting them to replace it under warranty, but they finally did.

Third engine - same thing!!!!!!! Hard to start and it seized up on the track just like the second one!!

I had to contact a couple people in Michigan to finally get another engine under warranty. It ran pretty good from day one, so I babied it and only drove it on the street until I traded it on my C7.

There's a TSB out about cleaning out the dry-sump tank and ALL the oil lines when replacing an engine. I think maybe they never fully flushed the oil system thoroughly, and little bits of junk were left to circulate around in the engine, and that they probably got into bearings, etc. Or, maybe the crate engines weren't built properly in the first place.

So, yep - I thought I got pretty good service out of the first one, but the second and third were crap! I hope whoever gets it with the fourth engine in it gets some decent life out of it!!

.
Thanks for the detailed reply.........with all your experience, I was curious if you actually paid out of pocket because you thought the LS7 was the only way to go.

My LS7 let go a bit more gracefully (overheated but still ran....water got into oil system when piece of piston scored through cylinder wall) after a track session and I got the motor replaced at Abel Chevrolet.

When you say you got a crate LS7, I assume you got the same motor I did from GM since you got the 100K/3 year warranty. And you're right about cleaning out the oil lines; not only that, but Abel replaced the oil cooler since they did not feel that it could be flushed completely. Since then I've been running it at the track...over 20 track days and some top speed runs at Mojave Magnum.
Old 04-12-2017, 08:49 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS
well thought id add my experience to this thread.
after my first expereince in the z06 at TWS, i was noticing the car was dancing a TON on the front stretch (150-155mph) compared to my old 4th gen camaro. wheel was dancing in my hands and the car was jumping left to right as much as half a lane. and a bit of a floaty light feeling.
so after reading this thread i decided to try to remove the 3 peice air dam under the radiator.
the center section was a little tougher to remove than i was expecting. luckily i had experience with removing the bumper when i put the splitter/bumper reinforcement and fog ducts in.
so went back to TWS this weekend without it. and i believe i noticed a difference. it wasnt like i was glued to the track with splitters and canards, but i didnt feel as much of the light steering, dancing, etc. i think it helped.
im currently running a extended zr1 rear spoiler and no front splitter, just the stock z06 black plastic bumper extention.

i didnt pay as much attention to water and oil temps on my first visit so i cant really compare with and without air damn for cooling. i was also tip toeing around on my first visit, and was alot more comfortable and pushing really hard the second visit. so wouldnt be a fair comparison anyway.

outside temps were 85, water temps were getting to 240, and oil to 265, then i would take cool down laps.
Make sure you have a decent amount of rake or you will get that floaty front end around 135+. 1/2" lower in the front is a good starting point when measured at the frame rail slots under the car.

I replaced my leaf spring bump stops before a trackday and forgot to set the rake. I just rolled with it because I already had my alignment where I wanted it. I noticed a difference within the first session. Came in and raised the rear(and lost some camber) but noticed a difference right away. I'm sure you still have some overall front to rear aero imbalance having the rear spoiler and nothing up front but you might be able to help it out a little with the rake settings.
Old 04-12-2017, 09:07 PM
  #152  
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you know its funny you mention that.
im running a square setup so i dont have the 1" taller tires in the rear. so ive for sure got 1/2" less rake than factory.
luckily i did do my race alignment with the square setup, but did not mess with rake/ride height, so im sure im either level or possibly even negative rake

i have looked at my ride height bolts though, there all equal at about 1/4" gap.
Old 04-12-2017, 09:15 PM
  #153  
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Definitely worth taking a look at it and making an adjustment. I was surprised at how much difference it made. At the time I was running OEM ZR1 rear spoiler with ZR1 front splitter. I have the extended ZR1 spoiler now.
Old 04-23-2017, 06:35 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by BEZ06
Yep!!

The first time it went was at about 48,000 total miles, probably 5,000 of that on the track. I came in from a session and told my wife: "Wow - this thing is really running GREAT!!" Nest session out BOOM! It blew a big hole in the left side of the block. I'm NEVER gonna say how good something seems to be running in the future!!!

I bought a new crate LS7 and ever since it was installed it was hard to start - I think it had a 100,000 mile 3 year warranty. It turned over slowly - like something internal was binding up. The dealership said I needed a battery, so I had them replace the one that I knew was good. It still turned over in a strained manner, but ran okay after it got started. Oil pressure and everything else indicated okay, but I felt something was wrong.

I drove this second engine about 500 miles on the street before taking it to the track, and when I did it pretty promptly seized up.

I had a helluva time getting them to replace it under warranty, but they finally did.

Third engine - same thing!!!!!!! Hard to start and it seized up on the track just like the second one!!

I had to contact a couple people in Michigan to finally get another engine under warranty. It ran pretty good from day one, so I babied it and only drove it on the street until I traded it on my C7.

There's a TSB out about cleaning out the dry-sump tank and ALL the oil lines when replacing an engine. I think maybe they never fully flushed the oil system thoroughly, and little bits of junk were left to circulate around in the engine, and that they probably got into bearings, etc. Or, maybe the crate engines weren't built properly in the first place.

So, yep - I thought I got pretty good service out of the first one, but the second and third were crap! I hope whoever gets it with the fourth engine in it gets some decent life out of it!!

.
Friend of mine that I track with had his LS7 replaced 4 months ago and the new motor had the same issues (turn over slowly, drain the battery, had to jump off). Finally seized up and is waiting for the third motor to be installed. Took weeks for Gm to finally agree to replace the motor. He did have his DS cleaned.
Old 04-29-2017, 08:22 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by brkntrxn
I have driven both at speed and agree with Anthony, the C5 lifts more than the C6. IF you do anything to the C6, just put a vented hood on it.

With your extensive experience, I would recommend putting some rake in the suspension (say about 5/8" front to rear) and driving it to see how it feels. If it is still too twitchy at speed after that, then simply do the vented hood.


-Kevin
I agree 100% with Kevin. My C6 at VIR would get tossed side to side on the back stretch on a windy day (even with rake). Hood louvers made a big difference.
Old 07-05-2017, 02:26 PM
  #156  
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sub'd

I'm thinking about the removal of the rubber air dam on my C6 Z06 and building a undertray for my ZR1 splitter for 1/2 mile and 1 mile runway events.
Old 07-05-2017, 10:13 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by FNBADAZ06
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I'm thinking about the removal of the rubber air dam on my C6 Z06 and building a undertray for my ZR1 splitter for 1/2 mile and 1 mile runway events.
My aero is stable at high speed, 190+ MPH (except when I run rear MT ET SS over 140) with ZR1 style front splitter and GM full width rear spoiler. I do not have the outer two pieces of the front air dam and do have a half height center section. Shortly I will have an LG WC vented hood which hopefully will help road course cooling and should improve high speed stability further.

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Old 08-21-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AzDave47
My aero is stable at high speed, 190+ MPH (except when I run rear MT ET SS over 140) with ZR1 style front splitter and GM full width rear spoiler. I do not have the outer two pieces of the front air dam and do have a half height center section. Shortly I will have an LG WC vented hood which hopefully will help road course cooling and should improve high speed stability further.
Dave, I'm doing it more to limit my aero drag for the 1/2 mile events.
With my OEM ZR1 splitter and rear spoiler, I still had significant lift on the nose, but I also had a shorter drag radial on the back which changed my rake. I'm going to run my factory gurney slap on the rear and use a taller rear tire for my next event, including installing the undertray. I've removed the two rubber pieces from the bottom of the car and will be cutting down the center piece to make room for the undertray to extend back to the axle center line. You can see the lift in the pics from the last NFZ event.






Front end lift at NFZ Arizona



Front end lift at 150+ MPH at NFZ Arizona
Old 08-21-2017, 04:26 PM
  #159  
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I think your high speed lift is probably mostly due to the lack of rake rear to front. Your picture certainly shows front lift.

I still have two OEM Z06 splitters. I am considering taking some aluminum and pop riveting it to the vertical face of the splitter enough so I will only have 2" of ground clearance. If I put the splitter on at the event I think that should minimize front lift and also do some drag reduction. I was thinking of doing that for Mojave next year, but maybe I should test it at the Oct 22 NFZ event.
Old 08-21-2017, 05:01 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by AzDave47
I think your high speed lift is probably mostly due to the lack of rake rear to front. Your picture certainly shows front lift.

I still have two OEM Z06 splitters. I am considering taking some aluminum and pop riveting it to the vertical face of the splitter enough so I will only have 2" of ground clearance. If I put the splitter on at the event I think that should minimize front lift and also do some drag reduction. I was thinking of doing that for Mojave next year, but maybe I should test it at the Oct 22 NFZ event.
I have my original too, and will be adding a rubber skirt to block as much airflow from going under the car as I can. I figure if I make the skirt a two piece unit with slotting on the main piece, I could adjust the the lower piece referenced to the ground for a distance of 1" to 2" , depending on the front diameter tire, rake, and actual downforce generated on the nose of the car at speed

My car squats pretty good on acceleration, but once you get that airflow going under the car at 135+ MPH, it's difficult for it to recover...even with my vented hood.




Last edited by FNBADAZ06; 08-21-2017 at 05:15 PM.

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