Bossdog

I'll start by putting on my flame suite, a lot of different angles to get flamed on this one.

First, its had significant discussion, second, it a set of personal trade-offs each person must make. Last, there is not much definitive test data so its mostly opinion.

I've read all the blogs, forums and articles I could find on this, BMW, Porsche and Corvette.

That being said, I'm new to Corvettes, 2017 will be by first season in a Vette , 5th season in total on the HPDE circuit. I participate in about 3 events per season in the intermediate group, mostly at tracks like Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen and NCM. I'm not sure it makes in difference in answering my question but I have an 01' Z, with improved breathing, coilovers and NT01's.

I am considering adding the BK harness bar and Hans device with the Corbeau A4 seats.

Can anyone elaborate on what is gained with the harness/hans in a frontal impact event ( or other off-track excursion) over the OEM 3-point and air bag. All the Hans Slow-mo video comparisons are without air bag to amplify the Hans restraint effect.

I've been wrecked into on track driving my stock 2012 Boss, a high speed impact, so I don't take on-track safety lightly.

Thank you for your thoughtful and courteous input

RHEACERDAVE

I've been a SCCA Safety Steward since 1987 and competed since '93. Go at least legal rollbar or stay stock IMHO.

danh52

Have you had a chance to try out the A4 seats on the track with the stock belts?

Poor design on the failed harness bar. The BK bar would not fail in that way, bent as shown, and depends on the upper seat belt mount for attachment. I suppose the bolt could fail given enough load but if the bar didn't bend the bolt would only see shear loading so should be strong enough.

There's still the other issues the OP mentioned, I also wrestle with not having a roll bar. I wish there was a better bolt in option out there but I've only seen the RPM bar and wish it gave more head clearance as I street drive my car also.

MX621

A4's on the track with stock belts are a HUGE improvement over stock.. main problem is in braking zones with the stock belts for me, plus at speed the stock belts just give me an un easy feeling.. id rather be strapped in. I agree with you on the BK bar.. its seriously over built and braced. im going through this same HPDE/safety struggle myself.. I only get on the track maybe 3 times a year, rest is all street duty. my last track day I had a sketchy moment where something was spilled on the track coming into turn 1 @ thunderbolt. prob at 125 mph I hit the brakes and it went directly to ABS, car was all over the place. I was able to steer towards the apex and save it.. since then ive seriously considered safety.. it was the first time ive had a close call that wasn't my fault.

Basil2000

I have been considering the same thing. I have a c7 with comp seats and I'm happy with how they hold me in place. What has me concerned is the added weight of the helmet and how that would work with my airbag. It seems to me the Simpson hybrid neck restraint with the 3 point may provide extra safety but haven't seen any hard evidence. Also have been wondering about a 4 point from someone like rpm and a harness with Hans. I don't DD my vette and don't mind altering it a bit to make it safer but some say to leave it stock.

BEZ06

There are several things to consider when going with a harness setup:

• Most organizers have a "similar restraint" requirement - i.e., if you'll have a coach/instructor (and if you're running intermediate you probably will for at least one session at a new event to at least get checked out for solo) you'll need the same harness for the passenger side.
  
  
• Many people will say that with a harness system you must have a rollbar/cage because you are held in an upright position, and in a rollover any crushing of the windshield frame and/or halo and your head will be taking a huge hit because your body can't slump over sideways like it can with the OE 3-point system.
  
  
• Many track day organizers may not allow a 4-point arrangement like Basil 2000 mentioned - most will probably require a 5 or 6 point only.
  
  
• Most track events will require the shoulder harness to "pass through" the seat-back, and may require a solid back to the seat - i.e., no adjustable back like the OE seats have. Both models of the C7 seats have pass-throughs, but are probably not satisfactory. The GT seat has a slot, but it's very low and the shoulder harness straps would probably not be at the proper angle into/out of the slot. Even the two holes in the Competition seat are rather low and depending on your height might not allow the proper angles through the holes and over your shoulders. And of course the seat-back isn't rigid.
  
  
• MX621 says: "main problem is in braking zones with the stock belts for me, plus at speed the stock belts just give me an un easy feeling.. id rather be strapped in." I run with the stock system, and before taking the track I always pull my shoulder harness ALL the way out - then when it retracts it ratchets tight. I pull it tight around my waist and lean back to allow the ratchet to take up the slack. I find that it holds me in the seat real well and I feel secure when braking hard.
  
  
• To use the "real" HANS device you need the shoulder harness coming over each shoulder to hold it in place. I have the device Basil 2000 mentioned - the Simpson Hybrid restraint, which doesn't require a harness, and I can wear it in my car with my stock belts. And even when instructing in anybody else's car that just has the stock 3-point system I can wear my "hybrid HANS".

So....no flames here - it's simply up to you to get what you need to make you feel comfortable tracking the car hard.

.

Quickshift_C5

If you're concerned about safety, you should ditch the A4's and go with a proper fixed back FIA approved seat. From what I understand, it's not advised to use reclining seats with full harnesses. It is "probably" the case with the image above.

RHEACERDAVE: You can't just post a random image like that in a thread regarding safety and run away without saying anything. It would be beneficial to everyone to know the details of the incident. I assume the bar was bent because the impact was hard enough that the seats reclined forward and the pressure was put on the belts, yanking the bar out of shape. If that's the case, proper fixed back seats would have prevented that. Which bar was used in the image?

MX621

From what I can tell that's a Honda Civic with a sparco harness bar. There are lots of cheap/knock off parts for Hondas. not saying it's a knock off but it's possible.
and to what BEzo6 said. C5's only allow you to ratchet/clinch the lap belt not the shoulder belt.

Bossdog

All good input! Thank you all for contributing.

I subscribe to the theory (espoused elsewhere) that safety on the track is about a system and not an item. Many items build on other aspects of your safety system.
Cant use a Hans without a harness (Simpson Hybrid exception noted)
Cant use a harness with out a mounting bar
Using a harness bar with out a roll bar has limitations and possibly adds risk
Driving your car on the street ( no helmet) with a roll bar adds risk.

I'm no expert but the fixed back verses adjustable back seat is way down my "trade-off " list. I sat in the A4's in a C5 this weekend thanks to a friendly local forum member. I fit in them comfortably. Many good reviews on the A4's with both OEM seat belt and harness on the track.
I am comfortable with the Adjustable back vs. fixed back trade-off (pun intended)

Race Speciality Designs looks to have a pretty nice bolt-in roll bar for the C5. With the BK Harness bar selling for $500, the RSD roll bar is only an additional $750, not significant in the larger Picture.

My trade off then, is getting hurt by the roll bar when driving without a Helmet. Given all the trade-offs available, I think that is the one trade-off I'm most comfortable making.

Quickshift_C5

Totally understand personally accepting the trade off. I hadn't seen it mentioned here, so I thought It would be wise to add.

I've never seen anywhere that it's not advisable to use a roll bar without a helmet. I have yet to hear about any concern over getting hit by it. However, if it were a legit full cage with a full halo and side/overhead bars...absolutely. A simple roll bar, no.

carefulnow

I'll just leave this here...

MX621

based on this video and other like it no one should be on a track without full safety to race car standards. Especially how fast modern cars can go off the showroom floor. A very close friend of mine is a t3/t4 parapaligic from racing motocross. He was a ama pro card holder. That was 14 years ago. I still ride motocross to this day. Like motocross, track driving has enherit dangers you need to accept.

FASTFATBOY

I run a C5 Z06 with Kirkey seats and a harness bar and 5 point belts, I like it.

bags142

I had the Corbeau TRS's in my c5. The adjustable back on my TRS BROKE during a trackday! It would not stay locked so the seat back would move forward and aft during driving. The A4/TRS in not a road course seat IMO. Corbeau is a "lower level" seat also IMO.

I went fixed back on sliders and have not looked back. Me and my co-driver did about 3000 street miles and some track miles during 1 lap 2015 and neither of us hated the fixed back seat.

Food for thought

Quickshift_C5

Which fixed back seat did you go with?

carefulnow

You seem to be conflicted about the topic..

Video make you nervous?

FASTFATBOY

If you're scared, stay home and fish.

bags142

On that C5 for 1 lap, it was the Bimarco Futura.... I killed that car and now have a Sparco Ergo. I have done 2 different round trips to Savannah GA from Atlanta GA (~300 miles 1 way) and sill happy with this seat choice.

I wanted to upgrade to a head restraint seat. And I did not want to swap seats for off track driving, so I went with the Ergo instead of the Futura. Otherwise, I would have gotten another Futura

MX621

^^ exactly. And I don't fish. So motocross and track it is. Lol.

MX621

point being street cars now easily reach race car speeds. If your gonna track your street car like some of us in here, you have to accept the risk that follow. Nervous.. Not really, but deff makes one think about it.