vettehardt

I am currently looking to replace my 01 Silverado Z51 with the 5.3L motor as it is rusting away. It has been a great tow vehicle for an open trailer but doesn't have the power to tow an enclosed on a regular basis. I would like to step up to an enclosed somewhere down the line so i need to get at least a 6.0L motor. My budget is about $14,000. I would love to get a 07+ 2500HD with less than 150k miles, but the prices seem to be slightly outside my range.

I have a line on a 05 Cadillac Escalade EXT (chevy avalanche) with the 6.0L motor. It has 135k miles, for $12,000. The problem is it is full time all-wheel drive.

The question i have is how well does the AWD do in towing? I know it is not good to tow in 4WD but don't know if AWD is equally bad or not. I know it will kill gas mileage. I currently get about 14mpg towing an open trailer with my 76 vette on it. What can i expect out of the Cadillac?

chpmnsws6

AWD towing is no issue. The biggest issue is truck weight vs trailer weight with bumper pulls assuming the truck is rated to haul it. My RCSB 1500 hemi would pull the weight all day long, but a good gust of wind or road irregularities would send it off and away. This is why we buy all gooseneck trailers.

speedwaywhite

I would recommend going with a 2500 HD, or any other brand 3/4 ton.
I towed 24' aluminum enclosed with a 1/2 ton Suburban for couple years, just too much trailer not enough truck. Traded up to a 07, 3/4 ton Suburban, with 3/4 ton you get 6 liter, aux coolers, rear leaf springs ( more stability than coils), 10 ply tires and proper gearing, (4:10)for tow. Huge difference in power, handling and braking. Good luck with your search!

64drvr

I would personally stay far away from anything with a 10 bolt. If you are open to 02-06's you can get a 2500hd, suburban, or avalanche with an 8.1. Those 2500hd's will have an allison and 11.5 aam. The suburban and avalanche will have a 4L80e and i believe a 14ff.

Moto One

Dido above... I went thru this same question, I ended up with a 2001 2500 Sub, 8.1 motor. and don't pass on the AWD, you never know when you may need Low Range and AWD to (like I had to) back up a steep drive or deal with unexpected snow. You are in snow country. The surprise to me was the 8.1 sub got far better milage towing then my 1500 pick up with 4:10 gears and 5.4 motor. Load equalizer hitch is a must have for a tag trailer.

Mark.

Gordy M

I used my 04 Escalade to tow my 24' enclosed trailer for 8 years and did not have any issues. AWD has compensation built into the drive line for turning and backing up with a trailer so you never feel any jerking. Both Don B. and I ended up with a United slope nosed trailers (Bristol, IN) and driving 70 I would usually get 10-11 mpg. You do need to get an equalizing hitch installed with 1000lb bars and a sway bar as well. Some considerations with the 4L60E trans is they need some beefing. I added 1-2 Corvette servo and the HD trans kit as well as a 40K btu auxiliary cooler in front of my radiator. Keep the trans temps below 160 and the trans will last a long time. The Escalade comes with a trans temp gauge.

Dan H.

I don't have any personal experience with the 8.1 suburban. This was a very popular and recommended option on the hpdre Facebook group. One thing to check when shopping for this era of Chevy truck is the steel brake lines. A friend at work has an 02 or 04 Silverado and had this problem. He went on to find it's very common. If you find a sub that works for you ask if the lines have been done or negotiate the work into the price.

Dubstep Shep

For an open trailer, you can't beat a nice RCSB, especially a newer Ram with the Hemi and 8-speed. I love mine and I get around 13-14 mpg towing my vette.

But, as mentioned above, enclosed trailers tend to drag lighter trucks around. You can always weigh down the bed, which helps quite a bit, but ultimately a bigger, heavier truck is the hot ticket.

Bill Dearborn

I tow with an 03 Tahoe that has the 5.3 AWD with 3:73 gears. It tows very well and with an equalizer hitch does well towing my 6600 pound open trailer with car and 4 tires. The vehicle is rated for 7400 lbs tow weight or 13K lbs gross combined weight. The problem I have with my trailer is the tongue weight is so high (even unloaded) that it overloads the rear axle rating of the Tahoe. I have to locate the car all the way to the rear of my 18 ft trailer to get enough weight off the tongue so I exceed the rear axle rating with the loaded trailer and a bunch of crap in the back of the Tahoe.

The Escalade you are looking at with the 6.2 will probably pull the load well (I know people who tow enclosed aluminum trailers with regular Escalades and they say they do fine). If you are seriously considering the Escalade make sure you know what you are getting into as far as rear axle weight carrying capacity.

I have been towing with my Tahoe since it was brand new in 2003. First with a 16 ft open bed trailer that weighed 5700 lbs fully loaded and for the last year with the 6600 lb loaded 18 ft open trailer. It has towed those trailers on several two thousand mile trips over some damned steep hills with no issues.

There is only one minor inconvenience with the AWD system that you have to be alert for. When you are towing a heavy load up a hill and the highway is turning you will get a sudden understeer when the transmission shifts down. It is the old friction circle story fully demonstrated in the blink of an eye. Tires only have so much grip and a sudden shift in torque delivery will take grip away from cornering and use it for accelerating. With a lot of weight on the rear of the vehicle the front tires already have reduced grip so at 60 mph the understeer can be enough to move you into the next lane. It is easy to avoid by downshifting the transmission before you get to the point where it would downshift itself.

The first time it happened to me I was very glad there wasn't a car in the lane next to me.

Bill

strano@stranoparts.com

If the truck is rated to pull the load the AWD thing doesn't matter. Remember AWD and 4WD are not the same thing.

That said, I know folks with 'burbs that are AWD that have strange issues with the diff binding and run them in 2wd instead of AWD. I've felt it, it's not good. Further, I am a pretty firm believer in towing with a real truck that has a lot of headroom in things like brakes, transmission, rear axles, etc.

I have towed with half-ton trucks, strong gas and diesel both. Suburbans ('96 and '02), 2500HD's, Ram2500's and F250's. I also tow a lot. My current truck is 3 year old, only used to tow and has 70k miles on it. There is a built in safety margin with a bigger truck, and less wear and tear as things are just bigger in the driveline.

Personally, I much prefer my 2013 Ram 2500 with a Cummins to anything else I've pulled with.

I happen to own a C6Z and a Camaro SS, and car wise I'm more Chevy than anything. But I'm more pragmatic about the brand thing overall. I like what I like, period. I've had Chevy trucks that were great, and two that were terrible. I've had Ford cars that I loved and were perfect, and two that were terrible. The only thing I've had multiples of that did not give me hassles at all are the Cummins trucks.

I dunno, you have to decide on your own. Newer trucks (even the last 10 years) are really quite nice to drive around in. I am not an SUV guy, no kids, so I see a truck as a truck.

dhowdy

I've been thoroughly impressed with my '15 f150 w/ 3.5L ecoboost even if it is a lowly half ton :p It has the added benefit of not being enormous when I'm trying to park it or do non-tow related activities.

It's rated to tow 12000lb which I find freaking nuts for a half ton, but I will say it pulls strong and doesn't feel the least bit stressed by my usual ~5000lb load.

Dan H.

I just bought a used 2014 F150. It has a tow package, not max tow though. I have the 3.5L crew cab with 3:31 gear. By my math in the manual, I can tow 7900 pounds if I have the payload maxed out at 7200 pounds. I'm really looking forward to trying it out. I'm also around 5000 in trailer weight and 1000 in payload weight. It should handle the tows to the track much better than the Jeep Grand Cherokee I was using last year.

strano@stranoparts.com

Bear in mind everything is bigger today. Even mid-sized trucks are rated to pull what half tons did not very long ago.

I'm simply saying that you want to consider how you pull, what you pull, where you pull it, and how often.

If an EcoBoost suits you, great. I pulled my C6 to Southern GA from MD with an EcoDiesel last year and it got 18mpg and was fine. But the brakes were definitely weaker, I had to plan passes much harder, etc.

Just don't fall into 'well it should do it ok' unless you live somewhere really really flat.

dhowdy

Of the current generation of trucks from my research, rotor size F/R:
F250 14.3"/14.3"
F150 13.8"/13.7"
Ram 1500 13.2"/13.8"
Ram 2500 14.2"/14.1"

All of these are out of his budget, but I'd imagine the 10-14 F150s with ecoboost are creeping down into it. Not sure how much was changed from the 15.

Going to Spring nats/nats last year, I averaged around 11-12mpg coming through northern AZ which is all mountains and hills. Never felt myself lacking in power. Rest of the trip through the flat lands, I averaged closer to 15 running an average speed of 75.

I'm really excited to see what the 2018 diesel F150 brings capability and fuel economy wise.

Not sure if you've towed specifically with the latest fords Sam, but you're welcome to do a test tow if you want next time I run into you. The 16+ models even have a 10spd trans and extra 50lb. ft. of torque.

Dan H.

I think 2015 is the first year for aluminum bodies.

dhowdy

Correct, it is. My truck only weighs 4500lb for instance. I meant in terms of brakes/suspension/driveline or frame enhancements.

Gordy M

VetteHardt, if you go with the 2005 Escalade, upgrade the front brakes to the larger 2008 brakes. Rotors, Calipers and brackets. Made a world of difference when I changed mine out in 2010.

BEZ06

I have a 2013 F150 King Ranch with the 3.5L TT EcoBoost that has the tow package and 3:31 rear. That engine pulls my 6600 lb trailer great. I haven't been out west, but going up over the Appalachians on my way from to FL to the NCM track in Bowling Green the truck doesn't have any problem at all up an over the hills.

The KR trim has a bunch of options that pump up the empty weight, and my "Payload Capacity" is 1115 lbs. And after adding a tonneau cover and bed liner, I'm down to 1020 lbs - a true 1/2 ton pickup!!

What does the sticker on your driver's side door say your "Payload Capacity" is??

It's on the tire sticker, and will say something like: "Weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed xxxx lbs".

If your payload capacity is 1500 lbs or more, you might be okay pulling a trailer about 6000 lbs or a little more.

Like you, my GCWR (combined weight of the truck and trailer) is plenty high enough that it looks like you can PULL/TOW a heavy trailer.

Butt....my trailer is about 6500-6600 lbs loaded up - and with the normal tongue weight being 10% to 15% of the loaded trailer weight, that adds A LOT of weight to the cargo weight the truck is carrying.

In my case my tongue weight is about 725-750 lbs. You need a WDH (Weight Distributing Hitch) which adds essentially another 100 lbs of weight onto the hitch. So....I'd have at least 825 lbs of cargo weight on the truck before adding anything else - and subtract that from my 1020 lb payload capacity, I'd have 195 lbs remaining for me, my wife, and our luggage in the cab, and some tools and track support stuff in the bed.

I weigh 220 lbs, so with just me in the truck I'm over the payload capacity!!!

Bottom line - take a look at that sticker on your door to see your "Payload Capacity" is, then figure your tongue weight and weight of your WDH and subtract that from the payload capacity to see how much you can put in the cab and bed of the truck before exceeding your 7200 lb GVWR. Also check the GAWR rating for the rear axle and make sure you're not loading up that too much.

.

Armycop

You guys must drive perpetually downhill to get the gas mileage you're getting while towing!
Vettehardt, always go with more truck than u currently need. While going down this rabbit hole of a sport I've on my fourth trailer and third truck. It's an expensive mistake to upgrade your trailer and not the truck! As for the Chevy HD 2500's w/ 6L motors and tow setups, stay away if you go with an enclosed trailer (which, if you stay with this sport/hobby, you will). Sure, the frame and engine are up to the task, but barely. My ex 2011 2500HD Denali never stayed in 6th gear; always downshifted to 4th or 5th on the slightest grade. The howl from the engine inside the cab was the deciding factor for me to get rid of it.
Now I'm in a F250 diesel pulling a 5th wheel. All. Day. Long. If you have the means, go diesel, never look back.

Dan H.

My sticker says 1445. I feel good about my car (C5Z) on a 18' trailex trailer (1000#). I'm as guilty as the next guy in this hobby when it comes to thinking about "whats next" in this hobby. I'd love an enclosed trailer, it sounds like that might tax the mule a bit.

I put a post on the F150 ecoboost forum with all my numbers. I feel like i've confirmed it's a sliding scale or balance between payload and trailer weight.

I'm looking forward to not having the white knuckle tow which is what my wife's Jeep GC was....