RobWilson

I did a search and could only find pictures of the Brey Krause Lap Belt Mount installed without the harnesses shown. Does anyone have pictures they can post showing the lap belts and the sub belts in place with the Brey Krause Lap Belt Mount?

I just bought a Shark Bar Harness Bar for my 2009 ZR1. Trying to decide between the Brey Krause and the Vetteworks Lap Belt/Sub-Belt Mount. Had the Vetteworks Lap Belt Mount in my C5, was thinking of going the same direction in my ZR1 until reading some threads here. I'm having a hard time picturing how the sub belts in a 6 point harness attach to the BK Lap Belt Mount, though.

For reference, I'm setting up my ZR1 for the Big Bend Open Road Race in April. I'll be running in GS3 (average speed of 140 with a tech speed of 168). May also do an occasional HPDE event with this set up as well.

fleming23

On my C7, I have both the lap belt and sub belt clipped to the BK mount. In this configuration you sit on top of the sub belts so they lay on top of the seat but below your legs. I have not noticed any discomfort from this layout and is the best solution I could see while using the stock seat. No photos at the moment, but I can get some in a week or two as I have a track day coming up in early March.

RobWilson

Thanks! Even with the Vetteworks mount, the sub belts go below your legs but on top of the seat. So do the lap belts clip into the top holes of and sub belt clip into the bottom holes the BK Lap Belt Mount?

fleming23

I haven't looked at the C6 mount but on the C7, both sets of belt clip into the same hole. It is snug, but they both fit with my ProFi IIs.

Bill Dearborn

I used the BK mounts on both a C5 and C7. The C5 mounts had two slots in them one was for the lap belt and the other was for the sub belt. I clipped the sub belt into the slot that made it easier for me to sit on the belt and kept the belt from interfering with the lap belt at the mounting point. With the C7 there is only one hole and both belts click into it. I put the sub belt in first then add the lap belt on top of it to get the proper arrangement.

Using the BK mount puts the lap belt in the proper location to go over your pelvis Vs the Vetteworks bar that places the belt mounts too far backward and to much inward. Although the sub belt mount might be able to work properly fastened there the belt is subject to damage where it runs between the seat back and seat bottom if there are any items that will impinge on the belt once the seat back is in its full back position.

Bill

RobWilson

Thanks, Bill. The C6 mount has 2 slots as well. To make it more complicated, there are 2 different versions of the mount available, one being shorter than the other. That was why I was hoping to see pictures.

I get your point about the Vetteworks mount, but I never had any issues with belts being damaged while using them in my C5. Reading your comments in other threads is what has me leaning toward the BK mounts.

danh52

Is it safe to sit on the sub belt?

I'm trying to think what might happen in an accident, mainly the forces to the hip joint and upper leg. In my case, I've have my hips replaced so I won't use the BK mounts that came with my car. I think on Schroth's web site they specifically do not recommend sitting on the sub belts, but then they are trying to sell their ASM featured harness's for seat without the sub belt holes.

danh52

I found the reference.

fleming23

First, I am no engineer and have no experience testing these systems.

That being said, in referencing the sub belt routing above; think about what the lap belt does. It seems to serve two purposes, the first is anti-submarine as the belt is often called. With the belts routed at any angle from straight down to straight back, should prevent the anti-submarine issue. The second purpose is the keep the lap belt pulled down on your pelvis correctly. I think this is the only area where sitting on the lap belt could present a problem. I do believe if you have your lap belts pulled adequately tight, it should certainly limit the body's upward motion making this less relevant. I'm sure testing would show the "proper" angle lessens movement but I am not convinced the difference would be material.

In my unscientific opinion, this is another one of those areas where you weight risk and reward. I see plenty of drivers strap into their street/track cars, strap on a helmet but have no head/neck restraint in use.

RobWilson

Guys, I appreciate all the posts, but want to stop this from evolving into a debate on the correct set up. I've read plenty of those threads.

My purpose for starting the thread was trying to find someone who has pictures of their harness installed in a C6 with the Brey Krause Lap Belt Mount Kit.

Bill Dearborn

Yes, that picture is in their instructions but it isn't the one that applies to the BK mounts or similar mounts from Schroth. The one that does apply is the Formula Installation although it isn't perfect since it is mainly for seats where the driver is more in a prone position. However, it will work.



The difference between this picture and the previous one is where the mounting points are located. The verbotten location has the belts located below the seat while the permissible location has the belts mounted at a point level with the seat bottom and very near the intersection of the seat bottom and seat back.

Schroth ASM belts do have a provision for the sub belt and they sell a sub belt for them and I purchased those belts since there are some organizations that don't understand about the ASM belts yet.

Here are some pictures showing the lap belt installed with a two point sub belt using the C7 BK mounts which aren't as ideal as the C5 and C6
mounts.


OP, I don't have a C6 but can show some pictures from my C6. I can't find pictures from my C5 which I sold 8 years ago.

First, the sub belt tied to the BK mounts.


Second, lap belt added.


Now to your original question about which of the BK mounts to purchase. The long version or the short version. That depends on your height and arm reach. If you have the power seat set all the way to the bottom in the rear when driving I think you want the short version. The problem is with the passenger side seat. From 2006 through 2009 Z06s were limited to a manual passenger seat and the seat bottom height isn't adjustable. If you look at the installation instructions I think you would probably be better with the short brackets Vs the long brackets. I am 5'10" and usually drove with the seat lowered all the way. That gave me more helmet head room and let me tilt the front of the seat upward so it held me in place better. However, it would be worth a call to BK to see which version of the brackets they sold first.

Bill

RobWilson

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate the pictures and the information. I'm 6'1". I ordered the short BK kit R-9121.

R_W

That BK mount for sub belts at the hip really does not look right to me...
I mean, I guess it would work to keep you from sliding down/out... but it seems like there would be a lot of play or wiggle in that design. Hmmm...

Bill Dearborn

First, the purpose of the sub belt isn't to prevent the occupant from submarining under the lap belt. It is meant to keep the lap belt in its proper position on your pelvis. The lap belt is being pulled upward by the shoulder belts and the sub belt pulls it back down. When fastened properly it keeps the lap belt in the proper position and the lap belt keeps the occupant from sliding under.

Sitting on the sub belt permits the sub belt to do this although a better implementation would be to pass the sub belt through the seat bottom so it would be fastened to a hard point with a direct path up to the lap belt. That can't happen on a stock seat with all of the motors, wires, bars and sensors under the seat. If you look at the Team Tech Jet Pilot harness system it is designed for the occupant to sit on the belts just like a jet pilot does in an aircraft. The only issue I have with them is every time I get into a car that is equipped with them it seems to take a lot longer to get them adjusted properly.

Running the sub belts over the front of the seat just adds a cushion under them that prevents them from being tight and it also causes the sub belt to pull the lap belt away from the pelvis encouraging submarining.

For stock seats that have the proper shoulder belt pass throughs (which the stock C5 and C6 seats do not) the best implementation is to use an Anti-submarining 4 point belt design that provides the same anti submarining capability the stock 3 point lap belts have. The only ones on the market right now are from Schroth.

Bill