Acid666

So I've done about 4 events with my C5Z. Originally I was AutoX'ing with the Hankook Ventus V12s that the previous owner installed. Great tire actually, I find that the wet traction is good and handles great for daily driving. But for Autocross they were definitely my bottle-neck for getting faster times as I slowly got more and more comfortable with the car. I found myself constantly about 2-3 seconds behind 2 specific guys at each events so I figured I'm finally dialing in myself to pushing the car to a limit point where I can now justify needing better tires. The cars are a newer Camaro SS that's tuned for AutoX and a guy in a Boss 302, both with 200 TR tires of course. This is all in CAM-S by the way. I'd like to be competitive and just be a better driver and get up there in the PAX scores, but I'm not hardcore about it. My goal is to be consistently in the top 10 for PAX around here (usually we have about 50 total cars at events)

So I dished out and got the RE-71Rs (275/35/18 - 305/30/19). Cost me more than I'd like due to me putting them on the Forgestar 18/19" staggered setup. After I run these down I'll likely put the Hankook V12s back on these rims and find a square setup that's specific for the track.

So anywho, these tires were BRAND new for this event. About an hour of city driving on them, and the 1hr to get to the event. First couple of runs they're slick and I'm all WTF? Talk to a guy who also has an '02 Z06 that's running in AS and he tells me I made an awesome choice, I just need to wear em in a little. DERP. My fiance is dual driving so she actually helped me heat them up.
First run, I actually slide past a tight corner and DNF. As I wear them in I get more and more comfortable and push them to the limits. Here's a video of my fastest run of the day. I usually run in Competition Mode, but for the final run I decided to try traction control completely off just to try it out. Ended up losing it and bumping a hand washing station next to a port-o-let.

So I think that as I get a few more events with these tires under my belt I'll get even faster times with them. Me and the other C5Z running in AS both pulled 62.XXX times. But he had a friend take a run in his Z and this dude pulled a 59. So I know there's more seat time to be had by me before I start throwing money into the suspension. Any things that stand out from my run that I can immediately work on? I'm working on being a little smoother and less jerky, and starting to really look ahead at cones to see where I need to be earlier. Took a while to adjust to looking ahead even tho I do it on my motorcycle all the time.

mattastick

1. Look further ahead and smooth out the steering inputs.
2. Turn earlier and less
3. Get back on power and steer the car on corner exit with the throttle
4. The front tires especially should be giving you a light squeal when you're on their limit on corner entry. They barely make any noise in your video.

01badvette

Good Advice here, Looking ahead and seat time will see huge improvements, need to drive not just for the gate / corner your in but the next gate your going to.

Acid666

Appreciate the input guys. Turn earlier and less sounds like a difficult habit to break. I guess I'm always trying to push thru it faster and hammer the throttle as I hit the apex. Looking further ahead will likely set my mental image up for that.

mattastick

You probably can't hammer the throttle in 2nd gear or you'll spin the tires. In general, you probably want to be squeezing the throttle by the apex as you open the wheel. Some surfaces won't respond to this style of driving though, so it'll depend on your surface. I just ran 2 events back to back weekends where the surfaces wanted completely different things out of the car/driver. You have to adapt. That's what makes this sport fun.

To help with the turn earlier and less thing (especially in transitional elements, like a slalom), look straight down the row of slalom cones, and when you see a line of cones, turn the wheel. This is how early you should be turning during a slalom, and if you hit the next cone with the front of the car, you're going too slow. Draw out the ideal arc of the CG of the vehicle through a slalom, and you'll see how the geometry of it all works out to provide the biggest possible arc through the slalom, which for a given amount of lateral acceleration, provides you with the highest speeds. It's pretty simple physics in the end.

Acid666

As far as different surfaces, that's completely true. Most of the time I'm racing in New Orleans on a nice perfect pad. It's almost a rectangle so they've got long sweeping turns and a few tight bends, one slalom and a variety of other things. This was a different location and on an airstrip where it's narrow. So I'm assuming to be able to maximize their space and let people run up north and then come back to the grid southbound and have 2 cars on the track at the same time they have to use a lot short sprints with LOTS of left/right turns. For me, this was the first time I felt the car have that much body roll. Immediately after that I felt like I needed to upgrade the sway bars because at my regular track I've never pushed the car like that for so much of the course other than on slaloms.

As for slaloms I'm usually trying to turn in early so I can backside the cones. I feel like I've come a bit with being comfortable with pushing the lateral G's on slaloms but could always use more work.

mattastick

The body roll (and more specifically roll rate and settling time) are going to feel worse in a slalom intensive course because you're turning back and forth a lot. If the car takes .25 seconds from your steering input until it settles to go one direction with the stock bars, this time may be reduced to .15 seconds or so with stiffer bars. You'll notice this most when turning back and forth several times in a row.

The way I force myself to backside slalom cones is to turn in early and try to hit the first one (you most likely won't), then look straight down the line and turn when you see the line of cones. It's a really good method that I got from someone significantly faster than I am.

Acid666

Yeah I think I'm gonna try to put that in my head for the next time. The last bit of advice I got from a local training even was to look at the last cone and just him telling me to do that helped to make me look WAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead and set myself up earlier.

Fast Cars & Horses

What tire pressures are you at front and rear? I run 71R's also in autoX at around 28 all around to start cold and let air out as they gain heat.

Acid666

I started around 28 as well. I went down as low as 26 but don't like to go too much lower than that.

AND0

How's the alignment?

You mentioned PAX, any chance you can go back to AS?
The C5Z is still a pretty killer AS car, whereas in CAM..... who knows what will show up, and the PAX is much less favorable.
It sounds like you are at the point where you could really benefit from an Autocross school, like Evolution.

eric1855

Drive closer to the cones, you are way too far off of them. Try and hit the cones, then back off some if you do.

You need to tighten up your line in the slalom and on those big turns/sweeper elements. Shorter is faster, you'll rarely carry enough speed to make up all the extra distance you are driving.

Acid666

Good point, I didn't think about the AS Pax handicap being different. That might actually be a route I take. Only thing is I wanted to mod my C5Z more and CAM allows nearly all of it. I attended an autocross training class that was a 2 day event but didn't really get a ton out of it. I did get a few little things but not any obvious "Oh ok what you did there is adding lots of time" things.

There's an SCCA class coming up, I'm debating on it but I'm now in pay off mode as I dished out for these Re-71Rs and a new Quick Jack lift.

Acid666

Yeah this is something I'm still learning. I'm trying to backside the car and felt like I was getting closer and closer at each event.

Gordy M

If Matt Braun is every in your area try to get a ride when he runs. After one of our events, we were having fun runs and even John Heinracy, his passenger, was impressed at how early he was turning the steering wheel.

Suns_PSD

I've never auto-crossed but I'll give you my opinion anyways.

1) You turn in too late. You literally should aim for that inner cone and use the throttle to just push outside of it. Like when you think you are going to hit the cone, add more throttle and the car will move just to the outside of the cone. This tip covers about 3 problems, too far from the cone, too late of a turn in, too sharp of an apex.

Interestingly enough you were much better coming back in on the course than going out.

2) Too jerky with the steering wheel. Not as much your entrance as the exit. The momentum of the car should be bringing that wheel back to centerline. If you have to force it over, go faster as the steering wheel slides between your hands.

Good luck.

Merkle

Don't hit the **** boxes.

Pro tip!

Next event in NOLA I can make, probably June, let's do an event, and I'll let you ride with me.

Acid666

First event in a little bit....Been getting quicker and quicker. Out of 6 cars in CAM I took first. 4/38 in PAX and 5/38 Raw time. I'm noticing these RE-71Rs get a little greasy as more runs get in. I dual drive with my fiance so double the runs makes em get there a little quicker.

I've been reading a couple of autocross books and trying to put a few mental check boxes in for runs. One thing I've been doing is connecting my GoPro to my Ipad instead of with the wireless remote. That way I can check the run immediately after to see how I did. In the book I'm reading it said that mentally pointing out your mistakes after a run isn't nearly as accurate as you think. So access to video right after it is key. So I made 2 runs and tried to dial in the heavy braking and 180° turn on turn 1 (easily the most technically challenging part of the course that made and broke a lot of people's times). 3rd pass I nailed it with my braking and entry line, and I pinched the last cones for that turn (the only critical cone there) and came out with some good speed (That's the run in the video)
For the slaloms I started to take the advice here and turn when I saw a straight line of cones. I'm getting better at it but I could of maybe made them a little smoother. It's getting there though.
Next on the list is to get my 315 square setup. I'm not worried about pax any more, I'd rather build my car up more towards being a proper CAM car. All the CAM guys here are running around in new Camaros and Mustangs and still riding around with nearly stock sized tires. Me going with a 315 square setup will be a huge jump.

Fast Cars & Horses

I'm already out of AS and in CAM because of mods. My car weighed 3070 with a 1/2 tank of gas at the CAM challenge last month, so I'm not going to do anything to that, but I added an MGW short shift and Vararam CAI. Headers and cam are next, plus new bushings.

I run a C6Z. I'm going 18" tires all around with the Rival S 315/335. I have 71R's now 275/305 and they do heat up quicker than the Rival S. I ran Rival S all last year on my C5 and I love those tires!! The 315's will definitely make a difference, but you might think about going wider in the rear if you can!! Good luck, this is so much fun! My fiance also co drives with me, so the car sees double time.

Acid666

Man I really want to go wider in the back but I'm trying to prolong the life of em by being able to rotate em. Can the stock 18" Z06 rim fit a 335?