phipp85

Ok, you win. Please forgive my post.

Eyedeas

Couple things that were pointed out in this thread but are some things I learned last time is using more of the track and also transitioning a bit more violently (word choice?) from heavy braking to back in the throttle for the turn. Turn 1 in this video is where I'm talking about more specifically. With the instructor in the car, he helped my lines but also was specific on how to better myweight transfer that I can only describe as more aggressive changes between brake and throttle lol. Hard to tell that from the video though.

yes I'm about to have better tires, but drive faster when I'm already at the limit of traction doesn't really give me any advice on how to get through the lap quicker. Maybe it's something not easily explained through words, better through seeing it first hand.

Eyedeas

The point of this thread was for those with experience to check out my video and see where I can improve. I want to learn HOW to drive faster

63Corvette

I tell my students (especially those who are VERY hard brakers): Do you feel the level of Gee force in your maximum braking effort? (They always say they DO)
So..................do you think that you are feeling that same level of Gee in your most aggressive (or last, or whatever) turn????
Um.................no!
So, I would work on achieving that same level of Gee in side loading that you do in braking, because you have proven that your TIRES are capable of that level............

Eyedeas

In my video you can see lateral G is around 0.9 to 1.0 sustained. Braking is like 0.6. Beyond that amount the tires start to lock and ABS activates.

Mugen1516

I echo what UrbanKnight and Quickshift_C5 said about sound on the video. Can't tell what inputs you giving and what limit you are at with the tires.

I was just at Hallett on 5/24/17 for a private day and set a new PR. Feel free to compare. I don't proclaim myself to be a pro, instructor, etc. I'm just another guy on the HPDE learning journey. I've run Hallett about a dozen times and feel I know it pretty well.

It's kind of hard to compare my car to your car setup wise but our lines are very similar. It seems like you should be carrying a lot more speed out of Turn 2 through Turn 5. Maybe tires are holding you back from putting the power down?

Best lap:


Just general words of advice. I used to be a late, hard braker. I changed it up recently and my times dropped. The old saying is smooth is fast and fast is smooth. You appear to be pretty smooth (without the sound). If you're late, hard braking, you might try to let off when coming into a corner then transition to squeezing the brake then squeeze the throttle. I found late, hard braking upset the car (ABS and all) and gave me less confidence to drive harder. The less upset the car is the more you can "know" and predict how the car is going to act with your inputs.

Eyedeas

Good advice, thanks for the tips. Just watched your video, those are great times. I also saw 1.4G, that's a lot! I ordered some NT01s, so hopefully that actually lets me have some grip in the corners!

Mugen1516

NT01s are a good tire. I have 2 sets in my garage that I cycle in for high traffic track days. I think I started at 27F/29R for pressures. Target around 37-38 psi hot.

Quicker10u

I think it comes down to not over-slowing the car and learning to run with some slip angle. You need to get confident with the car moving around a little at the limit. You don't seem to have that confidence yet. It comes with track time. AND A MATCHED SET OF TIRES. It took me a couple years to get used to it and some instruction to get me to stop threshold braking in every brake zone and carrying more speed through the turns...

Deuce Man

So a couple of my observations.

1. Not that it's apples for apples, but I run a base C6 with Re-11's (200 tw) and pull 1.25 G's in corners before they lose grip. Your first video has you pulling 0.9 to 1.0. Again, not apples for apples, so use it as a relative data point only, but your Z is far better equipped from a suspension perspective than my car to handle the turns.

2. it appears that you are actually driving the car to track out. As everyone mentioned, cant hear the car and can't see your steering input, but as I watch closely on a coupe of the turns it appears you are driving the car out to the track out point vs. the car pushing you out to the track out point. Watch closely and you will see it.

The best advice I have received was from a fantastic NASA instructor that always told me to add 1 more MPH to the turn. "Give me 1 more MPH" he'd always say, and keep doing that until the car is taking you to track out vs. driving the car there. Some of the corners you aren't even getting to the curbing, telling me your existing tires have more to give.

Are you running with traction control on, in comp mode, or off? I might suggest running with it on and driving it fast enough that you cause it to kick in and it impedes your inputs. Then switch to comp mode and stay there for a while until you are really impeded by the active handling and start fighting the car. Comp mode will save your *** if you turn in too fast, and you will feel the front tires skip on a fast sweeper if you push too hard, but comp mode will bring it back.

just some food for thought and you continue to improve. Again, best advice is take small bites out but add 1 more mph each time. Analyze your videos after each session too see what speeds you are putting down and try to remember what each turn felt like. I will actually yell in my videos (my camera in the car) when something felt good or bad, something like "#$%& YA THAT FELT GOOD" so when I watch the video I remember that moment and the feeling while looking at what the data says I felt. Call me crazy, but it works for me.

Best of luck getting faster!

Deuce Man

One more piece of advice.....get comfortable being uncomfortable if you want to go faster. Eventually the uncomfortable will become comfortable and you will be fast.

Don't ever go out and try to follow someone faster if it makes you pucker to the point you risk taking your car damage or safety, but takes notes of what those that continuously pass you are doing differently than you, and talk to them after each session. use the instructors made available to you and use your peers as a relative point of comparison to improve your own driving skills.

Eyedeas

Great advice, and I fully agree with what you've said. It's actually something I noticed this time, because the last time I would apex too early so this time I was trying to hit late apex But as you said, it felt more like driving to the track out point instead of the car swinging out.

To to answer your question, I always have everything off. Even comp mode has AH interfering causingsome pretty scary moments. I'm also not sure why I have so much lower lateral g than you. I have no idea other than tires. Would there be anything suspension related I should check? It feels solid, just starts to break loose at 1G

Deuce Man

So it does sound like you need new tires for sure. But can you try to explain what you mean by it starts to break loose? It is just tires squealing that is making you nervous, or does the rear end start to slip inducing oversteer? I would certainly say you are not suffering from understeer based on what I can see the front of the car doing. It doesn't appear the car isn't turning, as it looks like are steering it to track out, meaning no understeer for sure. If the rear end is starting to slip then that could be what you mean by breaking loose, but again when watching the video it doesn't appear there are any jumps of the G meter nor does it appear that car starts to break loose at any point. Again, so hard to tell without exhaust audio or seeing your inputs via a camera behind you. I would love to sit in the car with you to really give you better advice. New tires, a little more front camber and rear toe in (will help put power down earlier on corner exit) and just continue to take small bites by adding 1 MPH at a time.

Eyedeas

The tires start screaming and grip starts to let go at that point. It didn't happen in this video, but it doesn't feel like a push or oversteer, if I go past that limit it turns into a power slide. Exiting the turn though I'm feathering the throttle at the limit of the lateral grip until it straightens up fully, which shows in the G meter.

The G's don't jump because I didn't let it get to that point of breaking loose, I try to keep it just under the limit. I'm trying to make clean runs that are better each time around, not comfortable driving it at the absolute 100% limit every single turn just for HPDE. I want to get better but I also want to live and not risk it all every session lol.

jaredtxrx

Ross Bentley is that you?

The easy answer I think that is being overlooked by the tire situation is seat time. Seat time, seat time, seat time. Seat time (especially with a good instructor) is the most valuable thing to help you go faster.

SouthernSon

First, make sure the driving line is correct (ride with someone fast and experienced on that track). Brake straight line up to turn in, add throttle as much as possible as soon as possible toward track out. On next lap, don't brake as hard, add throttle sooner and use all of trackout. These three things are juggled at the same time. When the car is at the limit of good grip and using all of the track out, you have reached the limit of either tires, suspension, or alignment. Adjust as necessary. If you are hanging with faster cars into and around the turn but falling behind on exit, you need more power; maybe more rpm - different gear.

Oh yeah, turn that A/H stuff off if it is interfering.

Kenneth Dantley Jr.

Yes, "Drive Faster" isn't really an answer in itself. Sometimes "Drive Slower" in certain places, like into a particular turn, can get you on the best line and on the gas coming out into the big straight sooner, resulting in "driving faster" where it matters. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

BrunoTheMellow

mount your camera higher

SouthernSon

I might mention one other thing. Shifting can interfere with braking and throttle control when done at less than optimal times. Certain turns might require the shift well before the turn in or closer to the turn in point. This becomes more important as you carry more speed and want to get the throttle applied a little sooner. It may seem like a small thing but it really can shave seconds on some courses. It makes it easier to sense speed, momentum and throttle inputs.