Eyedeas

This was my second time running CCW at this track, and I'm getting better. But what I've noticed when watching other videos (mostly C7s) is that they're sooo much faster in the corners. Our lines are generally similar, but I'm so much slower in nearly every corner. Is it lack of sticky tires on my end? Or maybe the C7s suspension is just that much better? Or is it my driving? Help is appreciated.

Car is 08z H/C/I with NT05 rears and DW fronts (long story). Otherwise stock suspension.

http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/USAFODELL/media/312395B8-D09E-405F-8108-8945DFE86DB2.mp4.html

phipp85

I would get a known( matching ) good set of tires on it before you spend money elsewhere. Gonna be hard to see what you are working with running mixed tires. You didn't say anything about the age or heat cycles of your current tires so I will assume you don't know or don't keep track. Both good reasons to start on a fresh set. "Good" tires doesn't necessarily mean you need to buy a brand-new set but you need to know their history. I know a few guys that run R888's and like them a lot, decent combination of grip and tire life. Do you drive or tow to the track?

Whatever tire you choose adjust your alignment to suit that tire and I can almost guarantee you'll be faster unless something else major is wrong. What are your current alignment settings?

On a different note, have you tried just driving faster through the corners? Laugh, but it's a serious question!

fmcokc

I would also say get tires. At this point in your development, a set of decent, consistent tires is important. Michelin Pilot super sports or the new P4S would be a good choice.

DO NOT GET SLICKS OR R-COMPS!!! That is a big mistake that people make before they are ready for them.

Are you running stock sizes

Your lines look good. It's just going to take some time to gain the skills necessary to go faster. It doesn't appear that you are overdriving the car so what you are doing is the right thing. Look to instruction first before mods.

At your next HST, pull Chris Mills aside and ask for some instruction from him. I'm also an instructor at Hallett so if I'm there the next time you go, I'd ride with you a see if we can figure something out.

When is the next time you are going to Hallett? I know that there is an HST next weekend.

UrbanKnight

Not familiar with the track, but your "line" looks good, but you are CRAWLING through the corners...

Now time to figure out why... Step one- good tires and alignment. The c6z is PLENTY capable of tearing through the corners even on stock suspension. As you get faster, then you may upgrade or need to, but for now, you have to get more speed into those corners.

For future videos, if you want advice and video coaching, kill the soundtrack and let us hear the what the car is doing with you in it.

My $.02

Quickshift_C5

Absolutely, we need to hear the RPM, tires, and throttle inputs.

Eyedeas

For sure. It was my first time mounting the GoPro with HLT and it was just straight wind noise. I need a better solution for sound. But instead of obnoxious wind the entire lap I overrated it.

Eyedeas

Yeah the tire situation was because I put my track set of wheels and tires on the day before and one of the tires was flat after storing for winter (first track day this season). Instead of trying to find the leak and get it patched I made the decision to put my daily wheels/tires on and just go have some fun. I know unmatching isn't ideal but the tires have less than 1000 miles on them and less than a year old (to answer your question). Looking at lateral Gs, my "track" set with regular pilot sports on them weren't any stickier than my DD set. Which led to my question of why I'm so much slower through the corners compared to c7s. My pilot sports are in need of replacing though, so that's what I'm going to do first...get a matching set of decently sticky tires. NT01s are on the way. I would've rather had sport cups but they were $700 more expensive for one set 😳.

I drive to the track, it's about an hour and a half away. And my alignment is currently Pfadt track with street tires. May need to change that with the NT01s.

Quickshift_C5

Mount it to the windshield. If you want better sound yet, run a cheap external mic through the trunk and mount it on the rear bumper. That's what I use, and the sound is phenomenal. I close the trunk on the mic cable and attach the little mic above the license plate in the little cutout. All you hear is the exhaust scream and no wind ever.

Eyedeas

I'm planning on July 9th for my next HST. I know the video isn't ideal for listening, but every time I hit 1.0g the tires would be at the limit and start to squeal. So I couldn't push any more laterally. I'm not sure if I'm not back on the gas quick enough or if I'm babying weight transfer. Or maybe it is just as simple as a better set of tires. I think C7z have pretty sticky tires from the get go, so perhaps I'm just lacking in staying connected to the ground. I don't know. I had an instructor last time help with lines and I feel better about them now. Just trying to figure the rest out. I'm running stock sizes.

I also have an upgraded radiator and XP10/XP8 pads. Forgot to include that in my list.

Eyedeas

Agree on the crawling I'm taking care of step one for
next HST. Alignment is already Pfadt settings.

Eyedeas

Thanks for the info. What mic do you use? I have a GoPro hero 3 (older model).

Eyedeas

Thanks for the replies. I just changed the OP video to the same one but with HLT overlayed. I thought that was the video that was in there already but it wasn't. It may help in analyzing since I don't have sound with it.

Quickshift_C5

I use the Hero 3 as well, and put it in the skeleton case so I can attach a mic. I attach it, run it through the bumper, and use the included mic clip to attach it to the cutout section above the license plate. You can get a reasonably cheap mic off Amazon that works incredibly well. My car is stupid loud and even running it out to 7k RPM there is no distortion and it stays crystal clear.

Here is the mic on Amazon.

Here is a sample video from a couple years ago.

Eyedeas

Thanks, I'm going to pick one up for next time!

phipp85

Be mindful of your pressures too. Some tires just fall off a cliff after a certain pressure. I took a look at the Pfadt alignment settings you have and I think that's a little low on the camber. I can't speak for the NT01's and how much camber they need but I would dial in -2.5F and -1.5R as a starting point. If you are running rubber control arm bushings those settings would be on the conservative side. You can get away with lots of camber on the street as long as you keep the toe settings very close to zero. Lots of toe will kill the tires on the street.
Sport cups are nice but if you are going to spend that kind of money you might as well just buy some Hoosiers.

The just drive faster comment is very relevant. Next time out get another fast Corvette driver to ride with you(lap time fast not mph fast). Sounds like you know a few in this thread. Run some laps until you think you've done a good job. Pit, switch drivers and go right back out. You will be shocked at how much faster you can push through some corners. It's a fantastic way to "feel" what the car is supposed to do.

Edit: Clarification on the toe settings. Zero toe up front. The rear needs some toe IN. I run around 1/8" on the street and more on the track. Don't set the rear toe to zero. Make sure the thrust angle is even(zero) as well, very important.

Eyedeas

Thanks for the tips. I'll revisit alignment before the next track day. When I'm in the corners in this video the tires are already squealing and at their limit of lateral grip. Honest question, but is there something I'm just missing with "drive faster?" In my mind, if the tires are at the limit of grip I don't know how to push it harder through the corners. But that's why I made this thread, to learn and figure out what I'm not doing.

Quickshift_C5

I have a friend who always says that when someone asks what they could do different. It's absolutely terrible advice. Simply saying "drive faster" doesn't help anyone at all. Be more specific in HOW to drive faster.

phipp85

No you are correct if there is simply no more grip in the tire. However you are getting new tires and improving your alignment which will give you tons more grip. You didn't really say the car was behaving in a manner that makes it difficult to control like pushes, twitchy under braking, snap oversteer, etc. You can mount up the fastest tires money can buy but that doesn't mean you'll turn a faster lap, you still have to push harder. Drive faster is not shitty advice, it's not what you want to hear but it's good advice assuming there isn't something majorly wrong with your setup. Sounds like you are good other than some better tires.

If you had said "I can't get the car to turn in worth a damn, just plows right through where I'm trying to go."
The advice wouldn't be push harder.

phipp85

While I understand where you are coming from it's not always bad advice. I can use myself as an example. The car is fine, the setup is good, it goes where I point it in general, and stops when I push on the brake pedal. How do I turn faster lap times?

Quickshift_C5

No, it's always bad advice. Simply telling someone to drive faster is not specific enough. We both know there is far more to controlling a car than simply pressing the brake and gas pedal and rotating the steering wheel. Are you driving smooth, watching your brake markers, braking consistently, trail braking, using enough of the track, etc etc

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of being in a sport and looking to your coach for advice. You're really struggling out there and come in and say "Coach, I'm really struggling out there to do better. What can I do differently?" Coach: "Listen son, here's what you gotta do. Listen close, now. You're going to have to...play the game better".

It's not even advice or helpful in any way.