SunnydayDILYSI

But what happens when you live in Chicago and take out your C7 in January when it's 05" with added cooling, air flow, and high temp brakes from the factory... Your oil pressures goes through the roof, you go into limp mode to keep from blowing a head gasket, you can't stop because your brakes are not up to temp, and you sue the manufacturer for selling you a death trap...

There is no such thing as a daily driver / race car combo. I feel bad for folks who bought a C7Z thinking that they were buying a race car. But if someone can afford a $100K car, it seems reasonable to assume they can do the research to figure out that it is a street car and not a race car.

SocalC5Z

Lots of the debate here centers around what GM already knew about running a C7 Z06 on the track; even moderate track usage by amateur drivers would result in overheating issues that will at minimum, reduce power and in extreme cases require cool off sessions or discontinuing track use until the car sufficiently cooled.

All GM had to do to cover themselves was add a simple disclaimer to their advertisements, something like “The Z06 Corvette as it comes from the factory is not designed to be subjected to the extreme conditions of closed course driving at racetrack speeds, and may require owner modifications to allow operation in these conditions”. Customer expectations be damned.

Based on their advertisements, of course, this disclaimer would be a clear contradiction of their marketing theme and possibly reduce sales to those, based on previous Z06 versions, who would expect a car that could be used in such a way…

All street cars will reach the limits of production parts never intended for “racetrack” use, however in past Corvettes it’s been brake, engine or transmission temps that ended the party. Depending on the ability of the driver and ambient temperatures, that could take 20-30 minutes or longer or not happen at all during a track session in “normal” weather. If the C7 Z06 had continued this tradition of slowly heating up the brakes or oils/coolant in the same circumstances, no doubt this thread or the lawsuit would not exist.

FASTFATBOY

This is VERY important, the ratio should always be 2 to1, too much plain water washes out electrolytes.

A nurse told me this....in an emergency room after a buddy damn near had a heat stroke at the track.

SouthernSon

Not only is the race track a very hostile environment for the car but for the driver and spectator, too. A few years back the VIR track was shut down for a couple of hours while the only ambulance on the grounds was used to transport a heat stroke victim to the hospital. I try not to attend events unless two ambulances are on duty, especially if the track is way out of town.

fatbillybob

I did not read the whole thread but...I think there is...Porsche GT3 and Cayman GT4

SunnydayDILYSI

Try to enter one in a race, not a chance of getting past tech inspection. Below is a link to the Porsche race car equivalents of the GT3 and GT4. About twice the price of the street legal versions, but not street legal themselves.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...ng/racingcars/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/thanks-...ompete-in-gt4/

sunsalem

Those Porsches are straight up racecars (like the C7.R).
Big BIG difference between cars you can hang a license plate on and those you can't.

FASTFATBOY

A car designated and sold as "track capable" should be able to run laps with only what the owners manual says it needs to used for that purpose with a run of the mill driver...in my mind an intermediate guy at the wheel in medium temps(70-75 degrees).

Most C7's can't accomplish this. If you got in the "middle of the road" on everything, driver, outside temp, track as an "average" the C7 Z06 doesn't live up to it's billing.

fatbillybob

Nope the GT3 is a streetcar with a plate and is as track ready a streetcar as I have ever seen from an OEM. Some are mistaking the GT3 with the GT3 cupcar. The cup is a real racecar with sealed motor.

fleming23

Automatic, maybe. Manual trans, not true.

Dirk Miller

I pretty much agree with fatbillybob. These Porsche Cups that sunsalem refers to are race cars true, yet not close to GM’s cars. The majority of these Cup cars are less than $300K each and wouldn’t be found racing in the GTLM series along with the C7R. I don’t mean to split hairs here, yet the price of a C7R is way above this. I was able to substantiate this after getting a solo tour from Doug Fehan at the 2016 Weathertech race at Laguna Seca. After he and I discussed the necessity of upgrading my brakes on my C6, I was fortunate enough receive his tour through last year’s pit area. Doug introduced me to Dan Binks where we focused in on their use of AP Racing brakes. These guys confirmed that their investment to make the C7R into a GTLM endurance race car is well above $500K each. Now #3 and #4 are real race cars! Then again, Porsche is racing their 911 RSR this year at a cost that is at least twice as much as their Cup cars. Oh man, all it takes is money.

SunnydayDILYSI

The idea of posting the Porsche links was to show that marketing street cars with racing collateral has been commonplace for generations. With Porsche, they even use the racing classes as the names for their street cars that could not possibly compete in the the GT3 or GT4 races without massive incremental investment. Try taking a street legal Camry or SS to NASCAR... The mistake that GM made was making "Track Mode" available on the standard model. Without it, the vast majority of beginner and intermediate drivers would never put their cars in limp mode. What is GM going to learn from this lawsuit? To make the "Track Mode" a several thousand dollar optional "chip" upgrade in the future like BMW does.

SunnydayDILYSI

In my experience while sitting in the right seat with over a dozen students at Texas tracks over the last couple years, this has not proved accurate. For auto transmission cars in "track mode", it is accurate (both beginner and intermediate students tend to get the car into limp pretty quick with autos in "track mode"). But for manual cars, autos with students using the paddle shifters, or students who put their auto in "sport mode", I have not seen them go into limp during HPDE sessions (beginner and intermediate students).

fleming23

He doesn't have a C7....more of the sky is falling rhetoric from those who don't know.

555ss

???? He is an instructor riding in the RIGHT seat and has stated HIS observations. WHY does it matter he does not have a C7?
He has made it sound not so bad with the autotrans Track mode the only ones that over heated. Or did I miss something?

FASTFATBOY

All you have to do is go to the C7 Z06 section on this board and do a search for "overheating".....Some threads were merged into one that's 260 pages.


But yeh, it's a unicorn issue.

fleming23

Yes, you did. I wasn't referring to Sunnyday, but rather FASTFATBOY. Sorry, that may have been confusing.

But apparently not too confusing, as this crap continues.

Sure, with many people just like you posting in all of those threads. Many of which don't even own a C7, most of which have never seen one overheat. You are the one who said "most" overheat. That positively is not true, made even less true by your qualifying statement that they overheat behind the hands of an intermediate driver. But sure, carry on posting about how terrible the car is and how bad it overheats. Point is, you have no direct experience and are trying to interject yourself into a conversation based on opinion and conjecture. That being said, I will continue driving mine on track and not having issues. Thanks.

To further clarify for the dense ones - I have seen a C7Z overheat, more than once. It was an automatic driven by an experienced time trial owner. I have yet to see a manual overheat unless driven such that it was inevitable. For example, I did actually overheat a C7Z manual....in Las Vegas....at the owner's school....107 degrees out, with the A/C on high. Go figure.

FASTFATBOY

Unicorn status

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rchid=65292598

As an instructor and HPDE guy, I have seen my share either sitting in the paddock because of overheat issues or waiving people by on track trying to get to the paddock to let it cool off.

rfgoss1

Your comments strike me as coming from someone that has had a bad experience with a lawyer. I agree with and support Tort Reform, but I also expect to get what I pay for when I spend 100K+. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. The car is marketed as a track ready car. Otherwise why put all the track mode features in the car, like Cup 2's and carbon brakes. I was told specifically by the dealer that the over-heating issues had been resolved in my 17 Z. I believed him. For you to say that I shouldn't expect my 100+K, ultra high performance sports car to run more than 15 minutes of spirited driving, is absurd!!!! You presume to lecture people about this topic as if you are the only intelligent person on the forum and the only one that believes in accountability. Just a bit naive amigo.

Hershey71

Although, I am not a professional driver. I run in the advanced groups on the track. I have ran my 15Z in the 20 minute sessions on the track in temps of 95 degrees, granted the water temps were in the 260* range, oil temps @ 280*, and max tranny temp was 190*. I run the hell out of it. It leads me to believe I'm not babying the car around the track either. I do have additional cooling enabled while I'm on the track ----- > RUN your heater on high with the windows down. Once you hit 145 - 165 MPH you won't even think about the temp in the cabin.

I recently overheated my steering on the track and had the auxiliary cooling duct installed by the dealership to resolve that issue.

If you want to track your car, it is imperative you keep your fluids changed on a regular basis, engine oil (15 hours max ), transmission , differential , brake fluid . These are consumables that go along with tracking your car.