Monoball Control Arm Bushing Kit from AMT Motorsport Now Available!
07-18-2017, 10:40 AM
#21
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Lou.....grow the **** up. You are supposed to be a professional in the performance industry and yet you carry on like a child when someone tries to improve on an existing product.
Mark had the courtesy to not to say anything negative about you product in the forum but you still had to stomp your feet and pout. Many of us here are business owners and we ALL have to deal with competition. I've been in business for 23 years and don't have one adversarial relationship with a competitor. We fight it out like gentlemen until someone gets the job and then shake hands and wish best of luck before focusing our attention on the next one.
Mark had the courtesy to not to say anything negative about you product in the forum but you still had to stomp your feet and pout. Many of us here are business owners and we ALL have to deal with competition. I've been in business for 23 years and don't have one adversarial relationship with a competitor. We fight it out like gentlemen until someone gets the job and then shake hands and wish best of luck before focusing our attention on the next one.
Inferior????? Lacked quality??? That is like a gentleman?
when pfadt Puffdaddy came out with their spherical bearing kit, it looked and was engineered totally differently. But these are almost identical
and we already use Teflon lined spherical bearings and we have never failed to stand behind our products to the purchaser.
we even repair 10 year old LG Headers if the customer crashes or damages them.
I don't get you folks here on this section.
LG
07-18-2017, 10:49 AM
#22
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I am on the road at the moment and can't type up a professional and factual comparison between the two kits. I will certainly do that tomorrow, and the purpose of that will not be to be to disparage anyone's product. There are many differences although perhaps not obvious.
Lou I have never had your Monoball parts in my possession so I can't quite fathom how you can call it a copy. We developed this kit 2 years ago, did our own design, made her own CAD files, and did our own testing. People have been putting bearings in control arms far longer than you have. There are only so many ways to attach those to the car. I do it my way and you do it your way.
Lou I admire the company you have built and can only hope to one day be as fractionally successful as you have been. If I could sell as many of these kits in a year as you probably do in a month I would be very happy indeed. But your response to a tiny company making a similar product to your own feels rather like Goliath going after David. There are lots of guys making the same parts as everybody else - no reason that anyone should have a monopoly on any of it.
As for our camber kits, we are in the process of filing for a patent application for that design. After paying for a patent search it appears that our intellectual property is indeed patentable. That said I expect someone to come up with a similar design to ours. Maybe a patent will protect me and maybe it won't. But I realize that competition makes the world go round and in the end there's nothing I can really do about that.
Lou I have never had your Monoball parts in my possession so I can't quite fathom how you can call it a copy. We developed this kit 2 years ago, did our own design, made her own CAD files, and did our own testing. People have been putting bearings in control arms far longer than you have. There are only so many ways to attach those to the car. I do it my way and you do it your way.
Lou I admire the company you have built and can only hope to one day be as fractionally successful as you have been. If I could sell as many of these kits in a year as you probably do in a month I would be very happy indeed. But your response to a tiny company making a similar product to your own feels rather like Goliath going after David. There are lots of guys making the same parts as everybody else - no reason that anyone should have a monopoly on any of it.
As for our camber kits, we are in the process of filing for a patent application for that design. After paying for a patent search it appears that our intellectual property is indeed patentable. That said I expect someone to come up with a similar design to ours. Maybe a patent will protect me and maybe it won't. But I realize that competition makes the world go round and in the end there's nothing I can really do about that.
one part after another has been ripped off.
Go back to the early 2000s and our LG headers were ground breakers. The concept was new to Corvettes and the design was never used in this market, now you can't buy a header that does not look like our first version that we hand made then Borla made for us later. So yes, I feel violated.
your camber kit is a nice part. Ours is totally different but patentable as well
We have had it for over a year but never went public for the very reason that we did not want to deal with this sort of thing.
Now as for spherical bearings, yes they have been out as long as race cars have been built.
But there are some nuances that we made special like our sleeves, which it appears that your are identical. Show us your sleeves that insert into the bearing. (we use the same bearing)
No worries, there are enough bashers here on the forum that seem to not like my hard headedness.
can't win them all.
just remember when you make a part, try to not let it look too much like ours. I get really mad.
LG
Show us your sleeves. (Ears)
Last edited by LG Motorsports; 07-18-2017 at 11:01 AM.
07-18-2017, 12:31 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
The only difference between the LG monoball and the Pfadt monoball MOUNTING SLEEVE is the installation method. Since everyone knows there was a level of tolerance between factory control arms, Pfadt chose to use a Loctite bearing mount as opposed to an interference fit. Both (like Mark's) used a snap ring retainer. As a matter of reference, I've used the Pfadt system for over 5 seasons of club racing, with both full slicks and Hoosier "A" comps. I've pulled 2g's, had a few crashes and had A arms break before the Loctite failed. My point is everyone's has a slightly different twist on how to approach a product. Mark is entitled to his.
I do believe that the Pfadt bearings were of a lower quality than the LG from what people have told me. I have replaced just about most of my bearings on the Pfadt system. I think Mark was probably commenting on the quality of the Pfadt bearings but I'll let him answer for himself.
How's LG's warranty compared to Mark's offering?
I do believe that the Pfadt bearings were of a lower quality than the LG from what people have told me. I have replaced just about most of my bearings on the Pfadt system. I think Mark was probably commenting on the quality of the Pfadt bearings but I'll let him answer for himself.
How's LG's warranty compared to Mark's offering?
Really? So tell me why a new company with 4 products has to copy something that we already make? Then claim that they did it because the competition was "Inferior?
Inferior????? Lacked quality??? That is like a gentleman?
when pfadt Puffdaddy came out with their spherical bearing kit, it looked and was engineered totally differently. But these are almost identical
and we already use Teflon lined spherical bearings and we have never failed to stand behind our products to the purchaser.
we even repair 10 year old LG Headers if the customer crashes or damages them.
I don't get you folks here on this section.
LG
Inferior????? Lacked quality??? That is like a gentleman?
when pfadt Puffdaddy came out with their spherical bearing kit, it looked and was engineered totally differently. But these are almost identical
and we already use Teflon lined spherical bearings and we have never failed to stand behind our products to the purchaser.
we even repair 10 year old LG Headers if the customer crashes or damages them.
I don't get you folks here on this section.
LG
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Olitho (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 01:22 PM
#24
There are a lot of mono ball systems on the market for various cars....to say that somebody has to "claim" to an a-arm bushing is going to be pushing it, regardless if made from rubber, delrin, poly or metal. When dealing with a specific car (lets say a Vette or Mustang) you can only machine the ears to fit within the a-arm constraints. Suspension bushing are very much like aftermarket wheels or coilover shocks...there is only so many ways to make it and how it looks.
These Vette monoball bushings look very similar to every other monoball system I've seen....looks doesn't account for performance but the design is very similar in every monoball set up:
http://cortexracing.com/product/mono...ront-and-rear/
Here is where reality vs marketing of a monoball a-arm bushing matters:
1. Is the monoball bearing a high quality unit?....made in the USA or is it offshore?
2. Is the monoball bearing a standard sized unit that can be replaced easily in case the original manufacturer or vendor is no longer in business?
3. Is everything machined correctly for ease fitment (ears, sleeves, etc)?
4. Are quality instructions given for the machining aspect of the inner bores of your a-arms? Is this serviced offered by the vendor?
5. Is somebody available to answer questions should there be an issue and or problems during the install?
In my opinion, I'd go with the vendor with the highest quality monoball bearings and the best fitment of the parts.
What a lot of sellers fail to recognize is competition is good...even when the two products are nearly identical. This creates a buying frenzy and consumer demand. Many Vette owners that never considered monoball suspensions may now look at this thread and rethink this because they see it is available. It is a lot of free advertising for both LG and AMT.
Every McDonalds is next to a Burger King or Taco Bell......large car dealers are in "auto malls" with multiple makes sitting next to each other. Although you'd think that they would be cutting each others business apart it actually helps increase overall business for everybody.
These Vette monoball bushings look very similar to every other monoball system I've seen....looks doesn't account for performance but the design is very similar in every monoball set up:
http://cortexracing.com/product/mono...ront-and-rear/
Here is where reality vs marketing of a monoball a-arm bushing matters:
1. Is the monoball bearing a high quality unit?....made in the USA or is it offshore?
2. Is the monoball bearing a standard sized unit that can be replaced easily in case the original manufacturer or vendor is no longer in business?
3. Is everything machined correctly for ease fitment (ears, sleeves, etc)?
4. Are quality instructions given for the machining aspect of the inner bores of your a-arms? Is this serviced offered by the vendor?
5. Is somebody available to answer questions should there be an issue and or problems during the install?
In my opinion, I'd go with the vendor with the highest quality monoball bearings and the best fitment of the parts.
What a lot of sellers fail to recognize is competition is good...even when the two products are nearly identical. This creates a buying frenzy and consumer demand. Many Vette owners that never considered monoball suspensions may now look at this thread and rethink this because they see it is available. It is a lot of free advertising for both LG and AMT.
Every McDonalds is next to a Burger King or Taco Bell......large car dealers are in "auto malls" with multiple makes sitting next to each other. Although you'd think that they would be cutting each others business apart it actually helps increase overall business for everybody.
07-18-2017, 06:46 PM
#25
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The only difference between the LG monoball and the Pfadt monoball MOUNTING SLEEVE is the installation method. Since everyone knows there was a level of tolerance between factory control arms, Pfadt chose to use a Loctite bearing mount as opposed to an interference fit. Both (like Mark's) used a snap ring retainer. As a matter of reference, I've used the Pfadt system for over 5 seasons of club racing, with both full slicks and Hoosier "A" comps. I've pulled 2g's, had a few crashes and had A arms break before the Loctite failed. My point is everyone's has a slightly different twist on how to approach a product. Mark is entitled to his.
I do believe that the Pfadt bearings were of a lower quality than the LG from what people have told me. I have replaced just about most of my bearings on the Pfadt system. I think Mark was probably commenting on the quality of the Pfadt bearings but I'll let him answer for himself.
How's LG's warranty compared to Mark's offering?
I do believe that the Pfadt bearings were of a lower quality than the LG from what people have told me. I have replaced just about most of my bearings on the Pfadt system. I think Mark was probably commenting on the quality of the Pfadt bearings but I'll let him answer for himself.
How's LG's warranty compared to Mark's offering?
I am sure that his comments had to be about Puff daddy mono ball kit because as you said, they are the only ones that offer a "rebuild Kit" including locktite.
I never complained about Puff daddy copying LGs because they were anything but a copy. and they showed it. We did our flared sleeve (button) and that plus what I saw was just too close to our package.
NOW having said that, the first race car spherical bearing kit we built was in 1973 in my first Production race car so I know I did not invent this solution but we did solve some issues with our set up that made them race/street quality that we demand in our Race cars.
So no worries,. My answer is to do what a good businessman would do when faced with competition.
There are 3 aspects of any product that need to be met.
Price
Product
Service
Product:--- We know our product is second to non and proven so many times in Professional races not only on my cars bur dozens of others.
Service:--- we try to serve our customers as we would want to be served ourselves. We are not perfect but we strive to be that.
Price: Our price has been unchallenged till now. so in order to excel in the price department, we are offering our Monorail Bushings now for $1795 including the installation of the kits in your A arms at no extra charge.
send them in and we will turn them around with new Spherical bearing kits installed. You just pay the shipping from you to LGM and we will pay the shipping back included in this price.
I suppose that this should have been my response from the beginning but I have a personal attachment to the products that we come up with and make.
Sorry for my original response. and I am sorry for even posting here.
Thanks
Lou gigliotti
LG Motorsports
972-429-1963
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Olitho (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 07:07 PM
#26
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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
There are a lot of mono ball systems on the market for various cars....to say that somebody has to "claim" to an a-arm bushing is going to be pushing it, regardless if made from rubber, delrin, poly or metal. When dealing with a specific car (lets say a Vette or Mustang) you can only machine the ears to fit within the a-arm constraints. Suspension bushing are very much like aftermarket wheels or coilover shocks...there is only so many ways to make it and how it looks.
These Vette monoball bushings look very similar to every other monoball system I've seen....looks doesn't account for performance but the design is very similar in every monoball set up:
http://cortexracing.com/product/mono...ront-and-rear/
Here is where reality vs marketing of a monoball a-arm bushing matters:
1. Is the monoball bearing a high quality unit?....made in the USA or is it offshore?
2. Is the monoball bearing a standard sized unit that can be replaced easily in case the original manufacturer or vendor is no longer in business?
3. Is everything machined correctly for ease fitment (ears, sleeves, etc)?
4. Are quality instructions given for the machining aspect of the inner bores of your a-arms? Is this serviced offered by the vendor?
5. Is somebody available to answer questions should there be an issue and or problems during the install?
In my opinion, I'd go with the vendor with the highest quality monoball bearings and the best fitment of the parts.
What a lot of sellers fail to recognize is competition is good...even when the two products are nearly identical. This creates a buying frenzy and consumer demand. Many Vette owners that never considered monoball suspensions may now look at this thread and rethink this because they see it is available. It is a lot of free advertising for both LG and AMT.
Every McDonalds is next to a Burger King or Taco Bell......large car dealers are in "auto malls" with multiple makes sitting next to each other. Although you'd think that they would be cutting each others business apart it actually helps increase overall business for everybody.
These Vette monoball bushings look very similar to every other monoball system I've seen....looks doesn't account for performance but the design is very similar in every monoball set up:
http://cortexracing.com/product/mono...ront-and-rear/
Here is where reality vs marketing of a monoball a-arm bushing matters:
1. Is the monoball bearing a high quality unit?....made in the USA or is it offshore?
2. Is the monoball bearing a standard sized unit that can be replaced easily in case the original manufacturer or vendor is no longer in business?
3. Is everything machined correctly for ease fitment (ears, sleeves, etc)?
4. Are quality instructions given for the machining aspect of the inner bores of your a-arms? Is this serviced offered by the vendor?
5. Is somebody available to answer questions should there be an issue and or problems during the install?
In my opinion, I'd go with the vendor with the highest quality monoball bearings and the best fitment of the parts.
What a lot of sellers fail to recognize is competition is good...even when the two products are nearly identical. This creates a buying frenzy and consumer demand. Many Vette owners that never considered monoball suspensions may now look at this thread and rethink this because they see it is available. It is a lot of free advertising for both LG and AMT.
Every McDonalds is next to a Burger King or Taco Bell......large car dealers are in "auto malls" with multiple makes sitting next to each other. Although you'd think that they would be cutting each others business apart it actually helps increase overall business for everybody.
but I digress.
The patent process only works if the market is large enough to amortize the cost over a large enough qty. that will not happen much in a small volume of corvette "track Cars" that get built.
your list of 5 items is addressed in my "Price, Product, service" description.
I will drop out of this thread and post up my new pricing with installation in your A arms in another thread.
Lou G
Installed in YOUR A arms for $1795. LG pays one way shipping !
07-18-2017, 07:53 PM
#27
In an effort to get this thread back on track I'll repeat what I've posted elsewhere. Mark provides some of the best customer service, install instructions, build quality/fitment, and warranty that I have seen in this industry in a long time.
07-18-2017, 07:55 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Can somebody copy the drop spindles?
07-18-2017, 08:49 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Jesus Christ. It was a joke. I won't explain it.
based upon this, why would ANYONE make any parts to service the Corvette community when they would have to deal with knock offs?
really, think about that. Come up with a new idea, something that is marginally patentable, then look forward to have their work knocked off.
???? Really???
I would love to know what you do for a living
really, think about that. Come up with a new idea, something that is marginally patentable, then look forward to have their work knocked off.
???? Really???
I would love to know what you do for a living
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LG Motorsports (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 08:52 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
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07-18-2017, 08:53 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Easy now. Just lay down and take your meds. Can somebody order a blood pressure check?
based upon this, why would ANYONE make any parts to service the Corvette community when they would have to deal with knock offs?
really, think about that. Come up with a new idea, something that is marginally patentable, then look forward to have their work knocked off.
???? Really???
I would love to know what you do for a living
really, think about that. Come up with a new idea, something that is marginally patentable, then look forward to have their work knocked off.
???? Really???
I would love to know what you do for a living
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LG Motorsports (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 09:05 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
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2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
^^^^^^^This **** was funny!! I think Lou might have popped a blood vessel on those last few comments!
Mark, Lou, or anyone else reading this trainwreck...can someone talk about the benefits of the monoball over say delrin? Obviously the monoball will have no deflection but it is my understanding that delrin should be nearly the same. For an all out racecar where tenths of thousandths make a difference, I can see the benefit, but for a weekend fun car that gets tracked I would think delrin would provide 99% of the performance benefits?
Mark, Lou, or anyone else reading this trainwreck...can someone talk about the benefits of the monoball over say delrin? Obviously the monoball will have no deflection but it is my understanding that delrin should be nearly the same. For an all out racecar where tenths of thousandths make a difference, I can see the benefit, but for a weekend fun car that gets tracked I would think delrin would provide 99% of the performance benefits?
Last edited by fleming23; 07-18-2017 at 09:09 PM.
07-18-2017, 09:08 PM
#33
Pro
We love your products Lou! Not sure how you feel about it, but I also really enjoy the products and services at GSpeed. I won't ever buy the ripoff spindles or monoball bushings. As a small community, we need to support the small businesses that support us in our passion. Especially those very few folks like yourself that have a long history of building and supporting high quality performance products.
That said, I did fall out of my chair laughing at Bax_Ax's comment above (I''m sure dry sense of humor and business outside of race cars required). Understand why you may have thought it was serious in the context. Hope we can all have a beer and laugh about it later.
That said, I did fall out of my chair laughing at Bax_Ax's comment above (I''m sure dry sense of humor and business outside of race cars required). Understand why you may have thought it was serious in the context. Hope we can all have a beer and laugh about it later.
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Bad_AX (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 10:46 PM
#34
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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
We love your products Lou! Not sure how you feel about it, but I also really enjoy the products and services at GSpeed. I won't ever buy the ripoff spindles or monoball bushings. As a small community, we need to support the small businesses that support us in our passion. Especially those very few folks like yourself that have a long history of building and supporting high quality performance products.
That said, I did fall out of my chair laughing at Bax_Ax's comment above (I''m sure dry sense of humor and business outside of race cars required). Understand why you may have thought it was serious in the context. Hope we can all have a beer and laugh about it later.
That said, I did fall out of my chair laughing at Bax_Ax's comment above (I''m sure dry sense of humor and business outside of race cars required). Understand why you may have thought it was serious in the context. Hope we can all have a beer and laugh about it later.
PS, I lowered the price of the Drop Spindles and Monoballs So they must be less of a rip off. I hate those machinists who actually want to get paid making our stuff
LG
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Bad_AX (07-19-2017)
07-18-2017, 10:52 PM
#36
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^^^^^^^This **** was funny!! I think Lou might have popped a blood vessel on those last few comments!
Mark, Lou, or anyone else reading this trainwreck...can someone talk about the benefits of the monoball over say delrin? Obviously the monoball will have no deflection but it is my understanding that delrin should be nearly the same. For an all out racecar where tenths of thousandths make a difference, I can see the benefit, but for a weekend fun car that gets tracked I would think delrin would provide 99% of the performance benefits?
Mark, Lou, or anyone else reading this trainwreck...can someone talk about the benefits of the monoball over say delrin? Obviously the monoball will have no deflection but it is my understanding that delrin should be nearly the same. For an all out racecar where tenths of thousandths make a difference, I can see the benefit, but for a weekend fun car that gets tracked I would think delrin would provide 99% of the performance benefits?
Plus Delrin has a much higher hysteresis loss meaning that your suspension must overcome friction and binding before it can do its job.
Delrin is much better than the limousine rubber in the stock A Arms. both take the same labor but Spherical bearings with teflon lining is the ultimate way to go.
After a season of using delrin, you will find that the nice bushing hole takes an hour glass shape.
Lou G
07-24-2017, 05:08 PM
#37
I own and installed the LG sphericals on my track only c6z06 (hope to race st2 alongside petronis next year in the northeast.). They made a huge improvement in the feel of the car. that being said, the install was a nightmare, and ill leave it at that. Lou, I actually have ordered quite a bit from you, and as of late your ordering/shipping department has been as the kids say "a hot mess". I was on the fence about pulling the trigger on your aero package....but seeing where you are exterting your energy, the decision where to spend that amount of money is easy. Maybe spend more time straightening out the failing aspects of your business and lesss time attacking a grassroots racer who produced something that is no in no way proprietary.
07-24-2017, 06:06 PM
#38
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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
I own and installed the LG sphericals on my track only c6z06 (hope to race st2 alongside petronis next year in the northeast.). They made a huge improvement in the feel of the car. that being said, the install was a nightmare, and ill leave it at that. Lou, I actually have ordered quite a bit from you, and as of late your ordering/shipping department has been as the kids say "a hot mess". I was on the fence about pulling the trigger on your aero package....but seeing where you are exterting your energy, the decision where to spend that amount of money is easy. Maybe spend more time straightening out the failing aspects of your business and lesss time attacking a grassroots racer who produced something that is no in no way proprietary.
the install is not for the faint of heart and to be clear we have always offered installation service,.
no worries, I did not attack a grass roots racer, I pointed out that his product is essentially a copy of my long standing product.
And what does being a grass roots racer have to do with integrity or to give him a free pass?
A simple google search would have let him know that the LG spherical bearing kit was already out there and his copy appears to strangely be almost identical? Who would have though?
It happens and I under stand competition and as a result I have lowered my price and included FREE installation even at the lower price. which makes my spherical bearings a total of $700 less per set.
My guys can install the bearings kits in a set of A arms in no time.
I can also point to over 100 World Challenge races where we have validated our products and to see our hard work and R&D copied, I take offense. So I point it out, and now we have lowered the price and throw in the install labor for free.
We also have our own Proprietary camber kit coming out that is in the Patent process as we speak. but it is totally different than any on the market currently.
BUT I digress.
I agree that our shipping and order processing has been lacking, mainly from moving 630 full pallets of product from our temporary location to our new facility. So be it. We are getting back on track with 2 new full time shipping people and doubled our R&D staff as well.
I hope your new Aero parts work as well as our Wind tunnel and race tested parts.
thanks
Lou G
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timbo79 (07-26-2017)
