NVR2L8

Many of those on the corvette forum have known me for a long time, and I consider all of you to be my friends. Most of you know that I spent a tremendous amount of time and money in fundraising efforts and making presentations in support of the NCM Motorsports Park. Some of you may have seen me speak at driving events or other functions. It was a labor of love for me to see the project come to fruition.

After the MSP grand opening in August, 2014 I began communicating directly to the Corvette Museum’s board of directors to alert them to the many deficiencies that the MSP was facing with the local planning commission, the most notable issues relating to noise abatement structures that were not built in accordance with the Detailed Development Plan. This was a major mistake, excessive noise just cannot be hidden or ignored.

I am not going to try to re-litigate all of the hearings, the broken promises, the legal battles or the media coverage. Anyone can find such information by a search of public records. I have for the most part remained silent about the noise issue in hopes that the NCM would address and correct the problems. They have not.

I believe that there are many on this forum who will disparage or even hate me for speaking out on these issues, and I want you to know that I get it. Others will understand that this is a moral decision on my part, based upon my understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

When forming your opinion on the noise problems at the MSP, I can only hope that you will ask yourself, “How would you feel if this were my Mother?” Many on this forum are, or have been caretakers of elderly people, and I know how they would feel.

I will probably be labeled as a “whistleblower” by some and a “traitor” by others. Regardless, I will remain a steadfast supporter of both the NCM and MSP. There are many outstanding people in both operations. Sometimes the correct path is the tortured path, which is what I have chosen.

The tipping point for me happened a few weeks ago when I learned that Ms. Betty Crump (the closest resident to the track) had been diagnosed with Type II diabetes. I am not a medical professional, but it is clear that medical studies show that excessive noise can cause stress, resulting in a higher blood sugar count and the onset of diabetes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20193636

During the trial in Warren Circuit Court in November, 2015, Wendell Strode, Executive Director of the NCM testified as follows:


The wall was never built as promised, and six months later Ms. Crump received her bad news.

There is no way to assert a 100% correlation of cause and effect, but there is no doubt that Wendell made false testimony under oath.

In the same hearing, the local planning commission joined the residents against the track:

http://www.bgdailynews.com/news/plan...0b9e33840.html

In this never ending saga, the NCM is not (and has never been) in full compliance with the Detailed Development Plan filed with the planning commission in March, 2012.

It is understood that this thread could result in a heated debate among the members of this forum, a debate that I most likely will not participate in. As an “insider” on the MSP Advisory Committee for six years (2008-2014), I have maintained voluminous records for the entire period. I will not post this information on the open forum, but will provide access to my “drop-box” account to anyone who wishes to send me a pm with their contact information.

Thanks for listening.

rbl

Good for you buddy. About time someone (1 other) has the guts to speak up.

I have said all along that until you flush the toilet at the NCM you will never get a decent result. The chit starts and remains at the top with Wendell Strode. The NCM is a disgrace - the whole lot needs to be shown the door.

The community has been turned upside down and I personally doubt that they will ever have a good neighbor in the NCM, just more BS and broken promises.

c5racr1

I don't have a dog in this fight. Never been to that track, and don't plan on going. With that said stress is not the only cause of type 2. And according to the Mayo Clinic researchers don't know the cause. Above listed are some of the known factors believed to be causes or triggers. I don't know what is going on other than what I have read, but if you are going to suggest that this lady got type 2 from the stress of living near the track, a lot more information on the lady needs to be presented

Bajaholic

NVR2L8, Thank you for being involved. I am quite sure there is more than one opinion on this matter, including people that agree and disagree with your assessment. I think we can ALL agree there needs to be continued dialogue to make the park move forward in the future and applaud you for being involved in the past. I for one am a solution finder, we all see the problems, but finding a solution to the issues is the most important factor moving forward.


To others: I think it is time for the nay-sayer's to step up and make suggestions, to fix the issues, then get involved in making those happen.

Otherwise it is just spewing at the mouth (or typing). I can appreciate those that have been involved and may not agree, (That is what America is based on) but those that just criticize because they want something different is a whole different kind of Liberalism...

The current staff, IMHO is as good as any non-profit facility in the country. Due to constraints on how it must be operated and then being able to make/keep the facility what it is today is a GIANT milestone in success. Especially coming out of the down turn economy of the past 9 years.

Again, I don't really want to be hyper critical of those that don't feel it is being ran in their opinion correctly, but I encourage them to become involved and help correct what issues they see as a deterrent.

Those that get involved, make the rules.....

Nowanker

Never been there, wrong side of the country...
But I do have some experience with noise regulated tracks, and also some (wholly negative...) experience with local planning departments.
Laguna is 40 min away, but the noise issue there is opposite to that at the NCM. Laguna was there decades before there were any houses. The complainers bought there knowing full well the situation, and I have ZERO sympathy for them.
Sounds like NCM was built in the backyards of existing neighbors, who very likely objected vociferously. Planning dept caved to financial interest (SOP!) But noise promises weren't kept.
Around here, that would be the end of it... you can protest to the city until you're purple, but if it's in their best interest, they just stare blankly at you. Things must be a little different there in Bowling Green.
Maybe ignoring the city's instructions pissed them off? Once on the sh*tlist, forever on the sh*tlist.
Sad that the track is in a f'd up situation, but in this case I can sympathize with the residents.
Hope it can be resolved without ruining the track! Laguna is down to 89dB most days...

BEZ06

Yes, it was. NVR2L8 has a duplicate thread going in the C7 General Section:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...s-new-low.html


Over there I posted:
________________________________________ ______________

...it looks on the maps below that it's maybe 70 or so houses in the close in development.

Here's a thread about the noise limit they have imposed for cars running the track:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rts-track.html


You can see below a couple of satellite maps.

The first one I just now took off the Google maps site - I can't believe they are so old and out of date!! The track has been under construction since at least early in 2014. You can see that there is an outline someone drew in of the track, and obviously the houses were there way before the track was built. It's nice to have the track right across the interstate from the NCM, but with all the open land around Bowling Green I'm really surprised that they didn't just go out a couple of miles to get a plot of land away from any sound sensitive areas.





Below is a recent view of the area:

Socko

On of my neighboors cuts his grass at 6am 3-4 days a week. The kids on the other side are up till 11-12 every night in summer.

Outside of having a 24 hour race, I really don't see how having a racetrack in my back yard would bother me. There are noise ordinances in the city 7am-10pm is generally a free for all.

This is a weird situation cause it was a rare example of a track built after the houses, but that is more a zoning issue. If the city wanted the revenue from getting the space used or the clientele it brings in, talk to them. There is no such thing as blocking the noise from a race track.

When they had indy at the milwaukee mile, which is just about 2 miles away from me through dense suburban area, I could hear it like it was in my back yard if the wind was blowing the right way.

My talking point for why this is futile to argue. At the distance in that map, of what, 1/4-1/2 mile to that subdivision? Yeah its always going to be loud no matter what, but not any louder then the guy on the 80-90dB rider cutting the grass next door. I guess I wouldn't be happy if it cost my home value, but the primary issue is that the city let them put it there in the first place. The noise abaitment is nonsense, and everyone knew that going into it.

The fact that someone eats poorly and wants to try and come up with a reason that hearing stuff is making them sick to sue, would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. This is corvetteforum, beyond that its the racing section of the forum. I am pretty sure its not a safespace for people who want to blame their issues on other people. So keeping that kind of nonsense out of here would certainly lend credibility to any argument.

Mitch Wright

The Lawsuits have been settled and we operate under a 1 hour Leq limit in the neighborhood and Grimes Rd.

We have a max DB limit on track.

Berm is built and has be for 2 years.

We are continually investigating additional sound mitigation as we continue to develop the property.

Not sure what the point of the original post is. if any of you have any questions about NCM Motorsports Park e-mail me mitch@motorsportspark.org

We are working hard to make our park destination, if you haven't been here we look forward to your visit. We have a HPDE August 26th and 27th

Larry Myers

As a long time diabetic I have difficulty understanding how track noise causes diabetes.

In the US, type II diabetes has become an epidemic. In most cases it's caused by poor lifestyle choices, e.g., obesity, sedentary lifestyle or a lazy pancreas.

Over a thirty year period I worked in proximity to operating turbofan/turboprop engines, frequently running at takeoff power. Generating noise in excess of 110 db. Other than making me brain dead and nearly deaf I suffered no ill effects.

The above said, I agree, somewhat, the NCM could have done a better job with noise abatement.

Further, don't think an individual being diagnosed with diabetes constitutes a debacle. I've been living with it in excess of twenty five years.

I was a participant in the track opening HPDE. Although the track was incomplete, my observation was that when complete, it would be a world class facility. Believe that's been achieved.

All in all, considering the magnitude of building a world class track, the NCM has done a good job. Were there mistakes made, of course. Just remodeled our kitchen, were there mistakes made, of course. Were the mistakes rectified, of course.

SouthernSon

I remember riding with you well. You are one heck of a driver! The track is getting better and better all the time. Several buildings have been built on premises that also help with the noise. Hope to see you at the track again soon, Larry.

KnightDriveTV

Was the issue of not building the sound wall, not the result of being unable to procure an additional area of acreage that was originally laid out to the zoning commission? It appears that NCM did all they could, given the area they were left with.

Attempting to correlate an elderly ladies diabetes to a race track...I mean....that's a hell of a stretch.

I would love to see some tech developed that would allow these race tracks to somehow operate openly, and not infringe on any comfort whatsoever. It's just a shame that this track was planned, approved, and then these residents formed an LLC to apparently increase what they perceived were damages as one solidified unit.

I'm sorry, but it sure seemed like there were some rogue tactics by the neighbors that escalated this issue. People have a right to quiet enjoyment, I full agree with that, but the area they have houses, certainly benefit from the presence of the Corvette community. Corvettes being there gave that area jobs, growth, tax income, etc.

Just my opinion...

BrianCunningham

May be better off sound proofing the house

that what the Big Dig did

one of the reasons it cost so much

rocsvette

Sadly the whole situation was preventable if the man making the final decision had listened to his only EXPERIENCED source. When I came to the NCM I had already had a history of racing, instructing and running track events. I conceived and created the HPDE program with the tremendous assistance from volunteer Tom Bohlmann. As the HPDE program proved itself and its worth the concept of an NCM track became more viable.

But time and again the decision maker chose to listen to friends who had little or no track knowledge which resulted in numerous errors. Warned early on not to engage Alan Wilson, that is exactly what was decided in 2009 and it took a special meeting between Fehan and myself, who wanted nothing to do with the project after that announcement, to ask him to convince Wendell of the error. Thankfully that worked. Likewise with the sound study that I arranged and wendell saw no need for. By overlaying measurements from our 2013 Sebring DE on the base line we could show that WITH the berm in place, with muffled cars, we would be no louder than what was normal for an agricultural area which is where the track is located and the people have lived with for years.

But the berm wasn't built at the start, unmuffled cars were allowed and the resulting court case was inevitable. Part of the problem was that Wendell preferred listening to his friends and the "advisory board" which was made up of people with little or no track experience, certainly nothing more than some having been students at a handful of HPDEs.

The Crump situation is different; they want $1m and the museum offered $500k. Crump thought that their location on Grimes Rd would force the NCM to have to buy their land and we know how that turned out. They thought the sound issue would give them leverage but that is now resolved. So now they are trying the medical gambit, but to my knowledge Type 2 diabetes is not caused by stress or noise so that too will fail. At this point given that the track is there and the property is not critical, I would drop my offer because they will find it a hard sell to others.

I'm retired, lived some distance from KY and have "no dog in this hunt" in their vernacular and am free to lay out the facts without worrying about employment. I have the unique experience of having been on the inside at the very beginning and feel it's important to give an accurate accounting and not supposition.

BEZ06

Thanks, Roc - your insight is very valuable.

It's too bad they didn't listen to the sound engineers, and didn't build what they said they would build during initial construction.

.

rocsvette

Thanks and I would like to add that if they had complied with what they had agreed to, they could have faced the neighbors from a non-adversarial position. They could have said, "we complied with all the requirements, if there is still a problem let's work together." By not doing what they said they would they created a confrontational situation. Fair is fair, the Crump issue they now have is not their doing.

SouthernSon

It would be interesting to get further insight into that issue.

rocsvette

Before any dirt was moved, before the design was locked in, before the land purchase was even finalized, the DDP was created by planning and zoning and the Exec Dir of the Museum signed it. That document lays out exactly what is required and permitted. Among other items, it required a sound berm along the property edge, limited traffic on Porter Pike to no more than 500 car trips to/from the MSP per day, limited spectators to 500 per day, forbade professional racing events, required all vehicles to be muffled with an exception for several days for "manufacturer (i.e. Corvette racing) testing." So the need for the berm was clearly required from the get go. As I previously wrote, when I had the sound study done in 2013, long after the DDP was created, I had the engineering company do cases with and without the berm. The final decision of what to build and what not to build rested with the Executive Director (and I presume, the Board). To say they did everything they could at the beginning is grossly inaccurate. It is unfortunate that Wendell Strode never showed interest in attending one of the HPDEs and the first time a board member came was in June 2013 so decisions were being made by people who had little knowledge of motorsports facilities. Long and short, the berm could have been built when dirt was first being moved (would have been cheaper then too) and space was not an issue.

rbl

Thanks Roc for stepping up !

I think Roc has pretty well nailed it and all the "water boys" should read it carefully ... Flush the toilet and then it may have a chance to be repaired and start to restore some community good will.

Looks like the MSP is a spin off for profit business so probably paying tax.

SouthernSon

Roc, I do miss those many visits to the NCM when we shared coffee and friendly conversation in your office. That is where I would always find you poring over charts and coordinating. In retrospect, it would appear you were under a lot of stress but you always had time to talk and share some professional enthusiasm for the project. I do dearly miss those visits. Hope to see you at a track soon, friend.

KnightDriveTV

Thanks for that info.

From my understanding, the berm was certainly necessary and was agreed upon given what they had to work with, like you point out. It sounds like missteps for that berm are pretty clear. It seems the berm was only part of the original plan though, as there was also a wall. If I recall, from the hearings, the wall didn't get built because the land it was to be built on couldn't be procured for some reason.

Do you have direct knowledge of what I'm referring to and do you know why that additional land couldn't be purchased? It seems had that purchase happened, this situation may not exist. My question is, is that land still for sale or did it end up under contract blocking NCM?