When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Look into the stoptech T1 kit. It is a 4 pot (per our rules) 4 caliper kit. It was developed on my car for SCCA T1 racing. I have used it since about 2011 and only race on it. It is amazing and flawless in performance. In racing terms everything lasts forever. Since 2011 I have had stoptech rebuild the calipers once but they really did not need it. I did it for routine maintenance couple years ago. I have never had to change rear rotors. I change front rotors every 1.5 years. carbotech xp20 Pads I change after 3 race weekends. I could go longer on pads if I wanted to squeeze out more life. I bleed brakes before every race except when I'm travel racing. This year for example my racecar has been out of Cali since December 2016. It's last race of 2017 will be Runoffs in September. I have not bleed may brakes since December. I don't need to. The capacity and head room of these brakes is so good I can use cheap valvoline brake fluid from O'reilly autoparts and leave it in my brake system all year and just race. That's probably the biggest testimonial to how robust ST made this kit. ST rotors are called aero rotors. They are designated trophy rotors when you go to the floating pins that make the rotor truely floating. You float for racing make them more solid for street to reduce noise. Either is fine depending on application but the real point is the difference is which pin kit you buy to make the rotor aero or trophy. You can get calipers colored or anodized and after all these years of abuse my colored calipers are in pretty good shape considering I don't try and keep them pretty at all. Stopping power on the ST is amazing and confidence inspiring even on biggest braking zones coming off rovals like daytona 160mph into an infield course. Try trail brake with lots of good modulation and pedal feel on stock corvette components including playing nicely with or without the stock ABS. Pedal travel is stock because the ST engineers perfectly match the stock master to the calipers. The rear rotors are smaller than the fronts. That is ok you don't want any more rotating mass than you need and the rears do very little. The original AP/Hardbar brake system for T1 was just a front caliper solution. It had raced to numerous T1 victories so I would not get wrapped up at all in what the rears look like. You want a kit that is designed and balanced front and rear. There are many solutions out there. I go for the track proven ones. The buttermores have won SCCA national championships on the Stoptechs in corvettes. Oh and because of our class rules we race on the z06 rear wheels front and rear or use the F14 18x11 on the rear.
I see it mentioned often "don't know that I need/want the six piston" etc etc. Like many he is confused on piston quantity vs piston area. Moving to six pistons from the four does not increase your stopping by 50% simply because you have more of them. What was two moderate size pistons per pad are now one large and two smaller pistons. The total work done being the same. Most four pots on a given vehicle are within a few % of total area to those selling six pots. (some limits to getting exact numbers based on the piston sizes available but 4.1 or 4.2" is inconsequential)
Most kits offer only six pots due to the sizing of the caliper body and its related rotor size. As the rotor size grows so too must the caliper and then the pad...moving the pressure points around on the larger pads equalize the pressure on the pad/rotor providing longer wear, less stress and more effective use of the pad and it's plate- think plate deflection like the old banana plates of the big singe piston caliper on cars for years.
Some companies (including Wilwood) offer four pot kits on some of these yes. But it's often (perhaps like the early AP stuff) due to the rules of a class that limit brake options to such things. *A pointless rule really as the cost of the 4 vs 6 is really a minimal thing and showing again; those who write the rules may not totally grasp even why they do what they do....
Wilwood has recently addressed some of the dust boot concerns with the new dust wipe secondary seal. While not an expandable boot like many this seal serves to wipe the debit off the piston when retracted. This second seal acts as a wiper to clean things when pushed back in.
*I've said for years: lack of dust boots don't damage calipers; poor maintenance does. You shove a piston back in on a pad change without at least blowing off the crap and drag that stuff into the seal area..that's a caliper problem? No, that's an owner problem. Blow off the dust, use an old toothbrush and even spray a bit of silicone spray (not wd40) onto them before you push them in; does wonders. You live, you learn.
I might also add that moving to anodized calipers, vs powder coated, is a step in the right direction for heat and track use. But don't expect your parts to remain pretty for the street for a long period of time. Paint them? Don't even bother. If you want color do the pc for it's durability. Finding the balance between form and function is hard. There's no free lunch, what looks great on the street and a sexy machine is not always the most ideal choice for the track.
I presently have stock 2003 ZO6 brakes and do a couple of HPDEs each year and street driving. I have replaced the aluminum pistons with stainless steel ones, put in a titanium pad backing plates, stainless steel brake lines, cool air ducts and Castrol SRF fluid. At Road Atlanta I have good pedal feel for the first lap and after that it grows softer and softer.
With that said, I have stainless steel brake lines and use OEM rotors and Carbotech XP10s for the track and 1521s for the street. Since I already have stainless steel brake lines, rotors and favorite pads, can you sell your AP calipers CP8350/325 and mounting hardware just by itself?
I have 6 kits for C7's that I can't even give away.
Nice find for some C5/C6 owners.
I mean if you're GIVING them away, I'll take a kit Ken.
For the OP: If you don't race competitively, you have a reduced need for StopTech, AP, et al. If you just want badass brakes for flair, then that's a different story. I also can't discount the "chub factor" from having giant calipers and two-piece rotors.
I would place myself squarely in the "advanced HPDE driver" bucket and will (more than likely) never competitively race my car. If I did, I'd get a serious setup like the newly-redesigned Wilwood Grand National, StopTech, or AP. But since I'm content to be the HPDE World Champion, I plan to stick with the Wilwood radial Superlites and C6Z rotors.* I may move to the Aero6 for a larger pad and larger caliper (read: more rigid), but that's a season or two away. Here's a picture of the current setup:
In my limited experience, I get better pad wear from the Wilwoods in 6-piston flavor than 4-piston. The 6-piston may be less rigid since there are more piston holes, but the trailing pistons are smaller diameter.
*A note on rotors: I've used the Centric high-carbon (series 125) rotors on my Vette, '07 Mustang GT, and '14 Mustang GT. They worked quite well on the Mustangs but don't so much on the Vette. Based on a decent working knowledge of brakes, I assume this is because the vanes are directional but Centric only offers one rotor for both sides which puts the driver rotor vanes in the wrong direction. While I haven't cracked the rotor yet, it's only a matter of time and they're being pulled and replaced with KNS 4K ones. I should know more after a few track events, but believe this solution and improved cooling will give me a good cost/longevity tradeoff.
I decided to make my own brackets and put the solidworks drawings on the forum here in the road racing forum. If you have access to a mill you could just cut some. The hard parts cost $600+pads and I had real brakes on my car.
There's an OTS bracket that will work. The bracket needs minor machining to change the offset though.
Forgot to mention earlier: I've used TCE Todd for Wilwood since 2009...great guy.
Last edited by 2Fass240us; 10-02-2017 at 11:23 AM.
I wana get the aero 6 calipers and I was thinking 14" C6Z06 rotors and down the line girodiscs (2 piece).
This is my plan. There's a lot of power in being able to swap between 1- and 2-piece rotors without having to change anything else, especially for a dual-duty car.
Side note: Are you the same "a_ahmed" who was on 240SX sites 10ish years ago?
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
Otherwise, GT spec-37 rotors would be ideal.... but i wonder the cost difference and quality durability between these...
My experience with the Wilwood 2-piece rotors is that the rotor rings are great for longevity. I'm not a huge fan of fixed rotors and hats after seeing how much a 1-piece rotor will expand under heat, so I plan to go with floating rotors when I decide I'm ready.
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
The centrics for the stock brakes i thought were direction but still will crack from the small size and all the heat even with hawk hp+ pads....
Centric 125.62062 has directional vanes but is listed for both sides of the car. I finally found the number for Centric/StopTech technical support and the guy I talked to said Centric did that to mimic OE since they provide "OE replacement" parts. Being an engineer by degree and a track junky by hobby, that makes me twitch. I get it though...no need to retool to meet the needs of 0.001% of their consumer base.
Also interesting: the StopTech "Sport Slotted Brake Disc," P/N 12662102SL for driver side and 12662102SR for passenger side are "directional." But they are only directional in that the rotor slots are directional. The vanes still point the wrong direction for the driver side like the 125 because the 126 is based on the 125.
Last edited by 2Fass240us; 10-02-2017 at 11:36 AM.
Yup I parted out my old 240sx, lots of things in life happened and I went and got a vette instead of swapping an LS into the 240.
Going 300kph in a vette feeling stable vs a 240 which feels like it's falling apart going 200 was a no brainer Different class of car, but costs to play. It sucks kind of starting from scratch since my 240 was so well setup at one point. Not too happy with how handling and braking is on a vette.
Yup I parted out my old 240sx, lots of things in life happened and I went and got a vette instead of swapping an LS into the 240.
I ditched my S14-LS1 project when I took a job traveling for work, sold my 2003 Pathfinder DD, and bought a 2007 Mustang GT for DD & track. Then moved to a '13 Mustang GT, then the current '14 GT. S197 Mustangs are fan-freaking-tastic dual duty cars, but it was time to re-separate my track car from my DD and the C5 just makes so much sense. Out of the box with high miles and all original parts it was almost as fast around Carolina Motorsports Park as my '14 Mustang.
As for the LS swap, I nearly did one into an E36 recently. Then I wised up based on spare time (or lack thereof) and finally succumbed to the "if you can't beat em, join em" club after getting rolled on track by Vettes for years.
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
Going 300kph in a vette feeling stable vs a 240 which feels like it's falling apart going 200 was a no brainer Different class of car, but costs to play. It sucks kind of starting from scratch since my 240 was so well setup at one point. Not too happy with how handling and braking is on a vette.
Yeah the Vette is in a different league entirely.
I'm working my way up the learning curve on the Vette too. Thankfully there's TONS of info here and a good roadracing info base. Happy hunting.
I presently have stock 2003 ZO6 brakes and do a couple of HPDEs each year and street driving. I have replaced the aluminum pistons with stainless steel ones, put in a titanium pad backing plates, stainless steel brake lines, cool air ducts and Castrol SRF fluid. At Road Atlanta I have good pedal feel for the first lap and after that it grows softer and softer.
With that said, I have stainless steel brake lines and use OEM rotors and Carbotech XP10s for the track and 1521s for the street. Since I already have stainless steel brake lines, rotors and favorite pads, can you sell your AP calipers CP8350/325 and mounting hardware just by itself?
Thanks.
Spaggs
Hi,
We don't sell our kit components separately. We've done that in the past, and it always comes back to bite us. A brake system is a system, and it only performs as well as the weakest link in the chain (as you've seen with your current setup). The biggest problem we face is long-term customer service. We have people calling us to try and trouble-shoot every brake issue under the sun, because they have something related to AP Racing. Those calls start out, "I found a set of AP calipers on eBay..." After some discussion, it turns out that they every issue they're having is completely unrelated to AP, us, etc.! In those cases we don't know what we're dealing with, where it came from, who made it, what its capabilities are, etc. That makes it pretty much impossible for us to provide the type of service our customers enjoy. We therefore decided that if our name is going to be associated with it, it needs to be serviced properly. That means we need to know what all the components in the kit are, and that they're all working together properly as designed. Hopefully that makes sense.
Also note, the discs are one of the most key pieces of hardware. Hot discs mean everything else downstream is hot! Hot discs lead to hot pads, lead to hot pistons, hot calipers, hot fluid, etc. Running the best calipers in the world with sub-par discs is going to severely limit the performance of your brake system.
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 10-02-2017 at 02:41 PM.
Centric 125.62062 has directional vanes but is listed for both sides of the car. I finally found the number for Centric/StopTech technical support and the guy I talked to said Centric did that to mimic OE since they provide "OE replacement" parts. Being an engineer by degree and a track junky by hobby, that makes me twitch. I get it though...no need to retool to meet the needs of 0.001% of their consumer base.
Also interesting: the StopTech "Sport Slotted Brake Disc," P/N 12662102SL for driver side and 12662102SR for passenger side are "directional." But they are only directional in that the rotor slots are directional. The vanes still point the wrong direction for the driver side like the 125 because the 126 is based on the 125.
If they make it the same it is a consistent approach that works 99% of the time.
This among other reasons was why I thought buying DBA blanks in qty was a good idea.
I thought I'd give an update on where I stand with this. I received my Penske 7500DA's & 8300DA's, and have ordered my F14 18x11 wheels last week but it'll probably be a longer than expected 2 months before they arrive. I've had a significant amount of private discussion with Jeff Ritt over the past couple of months on the brake options, including my desired uses and eventual HP:LB ratio.
Jeff has recommended their 9660/355 package, so once the wheels arrive I will use the template to verify fitment and hopefully order soon thereafter. This isn't on a Corvette, but I am running custom brackets to use OEM base C6 calipers/rotors now; my hard lines use different fittings (female M10x1 bubble flare) than the C6, so I need to convert that fitting description into one of the fitting types listed here:
Alternatively, I can use a -3AN female hose end on the frame side in combination with a M10 to -3AN male adapter on the frame. I would prefer to not use the adapter to keep things simple if possible.
Yes, the 9660/355 kit is overkill for the typical environment, but I'm willing to pay for something which will never leave me second guessing what I'm leaving on the table when on the track. I plan on returning to the DS2500 street pads, but I'm undecided on HPDE pads. Typically I like a pad which doesn't lock up the wheels at the slightest tap, but do like compounds which give higher stopping force the harder I press on the pedal. Since this is the first time on 18" wheels, I'm not sure what tires I'll use with HPDE, but I'll likely use Rival S's for street or autocross duty.
Last edited by JimMueller; 11-27-2017 at 01:45 PM.
Reason: spelling
Supplying similar products I'd personally suggest a male M10-AN3 adapter in the caliper with a single crush washer and then simply use the common AN3 0, 45 or 90 hose end to suite your needs. The swivel end of the hose will allow you to index it easily for clearance needs. Banjo ends and crush washers work in such cases also but double the potential for leaks at the crush washer and offer limited re-use. A side benefit is that any service is simple with a common AN3 cap and plug should you have a need to remove the caliper, limited leaks etc.
I'd avoid and M10 male direct fit to the caliper and they won't swivel leaving you the chassis end as your only point of rotation- depending upon where it finally seats. If you need any sort of curve in it that's rather cumbersome as you'd need to preload the twist in the hose and then secure it- not a good plan.
*Browsing those fittings yes the 90 degree ones (which I must say are pretty cool Jeff) would allow for indexing on the caliper. Although you'd be tightening to the aluminum body repeatedly (lightly I'd guess) whereas the AN3 would be steel on steel.
Supplying similar products I'd personally suggest a male M10-AN3 adapter in the caliper with a single crush washer and then simply use the common AN3 0, 45 or 90 hose end to suite your needs. The swivel end of the hose will allow you to index it easily for clearance needs. Banjo ends and crush washers work in such cases also but double the potential for leaks at the crush washer and offer limited re-use. A side benefit is that any service is simple with a common AN3 cap and plug should you have a need to remove the caliper, limited leaks etc.
I'd avoid and M10 male direct fit to the caliper and they won't swivel leaving you the chassis end as your only point of rotation- depending upon where it finally seats. If you need any sort of curve in it that's rather cumbersome as you'd need to preload the twist in the hose and then secure it- not a good plan.
*Browsing those fittings yes the 90 degree ones (which I must say are pretty cool Jeff) would allow for indexing on the caliper. Although you'd be tightening to the aluminum body repeatedly (lightly I'd guess) whereas the AN3 would be steel on steel.
This is on a C4, but when it came to adapting the Viper Brembos to my race car I found it easier to use metric to -3 adapters on the frame and caliper ends, and then just a generic AN hose to connect the two.
09-01-2017, 01:52 PM
Different class of car, but costs to play. It sucks kind of starting from scratch since my 240 was so well setup at one point. Not too happy with how handling and braking is on a vette.
