drewz06

so these CSM racing stands are freaking amazing.... but i don't have the coin to shell out for the kit at the moment....

looks like Tenhulzen units are pretty good from what i can see... how do i adjust the camber with the wheel on the ground?

do i need to lift... adjust... lower... roll back and forth... then remeasure?

i'm rocking AMT UCA studs and camber plates... just wondering the best way to get shims in/out to determine proper camber....

'12GS

I have Gen 1 CSM Hubstands (read "not nearly as expensive back then") that I use for my alignments, so I had to google what the "Tenhulzen units" are, but they appear to be toe plates and a camber tool all in one, correct?

If so, yes, you will have to jack the car up (probably pull the wheel off), adjust, lower it down, roll it a few feet back and forth to let the suspension settle, then remeasure.

Even with the CSM hub stands, I still have to jack the car up to adjust because you can't adjust with load on the suspension, but I don't have to pull a wheel off, or roll the car to let it settle. Saves a bit of time. I also would feel like I need to drive the car around the block to make sure its fully settled, but that's just because I'm a perfectionist. Rolling it is likely all it takes.

davidfarmer

If you are just shimming the uppers, just use trig. Tan(Degree change) x 14= shim thickness to add or remove

18 would be the distance between the UCA and LCA. I’m estimating 14, can’t remember the exact number at the moment

kjchristopher

Holy crap. You can get the Paco stands for 25% of the CSM basic stands. https://pacomotorsports.com

'12GS

When CSM came out with their gen 1 hub stands, that was the price. I never would have bought them for the price they are now. They're super nice now, but I can't justify that cost.

drewz06

wow... so is paco legit? ill definitely put up the cash for those.... exactly what i was looking for....

davidfarmer

Blocks on dollies work well for me, although 4 post lift is my first choice. I rarely need to load suspension with wheels removed.

drewz06

yeah i'm going to amt camber plates/studs... i want to be able to dial in the alignment myself and know exactly what adding and subtracting does for me...

seems like all the alignment shops around me just do what the computer says and then pull it off the rack...

'12GS

I have a miata friend with the paco stands. He says they work alright, but he doesn't love them. He will do rough alignments with them, and then take the car to get a real alignment later. I haven't seen them in person, but they do look a little thin where it bolts to the hubs, but that might just be the angle of the picture.

drewz06

yeah if i can get the camber close... i can adjust with shims... i'm not looking to nail numbers, more like letting the tires tell me what they want....

i'd probably do the camber myself, and then take it in to a shop and have them do a laser eyeball... so i can know where i'm at and where i need to be...

the amt kit makes the align static, so knowing where i land with the plates and shims will allow me to establish a baseline and then adjust from there...

at least thats my thought process.....

kjchristopher

They work great. I've used them on three BMWs and the Z06.

I ended up buying a set of these to measure camber

RacerRik

I do my home alignments with tools I built, but I really don't see the big advantage of hubstands. Do you adjust the suspension with the weight of the car on the stands? Sounds scary to me!

There is a lot of play in the snail adjusters and with the weight off the suspension, you can easily move and preload the suspension arms to get them right where you want. I would think it is very difficult with the weight of the car on the suspension.

I would also think you need to drive the car to get the suspension to settle after adjustments and then re-measure settings. Hubstands would make that a major pain with all the jacking and taking wheels off / putting wheels back on / then driving / then putting hubstands back on.

The way I do it is take measurements before starting and write them down. Then figure out how much change is required to get to the final specs I want.

Then I jack up the car and put it on jack stands. I take measurements again which become the baseline with weight off wheels. I add or subtract the amount I originally calculated and make the adjustments with the weight off wheels. This is not exact, since the suspension acts a bit different when the weight is off the wheels, but it is pretty close. I then set the car back down and drive it to settle suspension and make a final measurement. It usually is very close to what I am shooting for - if not, rinse and repeat.

Home alignments are not a quick process if you want to get it perfect.

kjchristopher

with the wheels on the bottom of the stands the suspension settles just fine, so your assumption of having to remove and drive around is incorrect. Some things you can do with the weight of the car on it. Toe for instance. Not scary at all.

RacerRik

Of course I do toe adjustments with the weight of the car on the wheels. But I do rock it back and forth to relieve any stress from adjustment. How do you measure thrust angle with the hubstands?

kjchristopher

with wire between the stands, very similar to the old standard of strings. You can see in the picture below.

RacerRik

That wire has to be better than strings. I never could get repeatable, accurate results with strings. I use lasers now and nothing compares to lasers for accuracy on toe and thrust angle.

mgarfias

Theres also the BBX ones for $1200: https://bbxracing.com/product/standard-hubstands/

Hell, even the Pro BBX ones for $2400 are a bargain compared to CSM.

drewz06

good stuff here! i don't think ill make too much use of them once i get the camber plates and shims dialed in... but i don't think any of the local shops would let me play on their alignment rack....

i'll follow up on this in a couple months once i get the chance to revisit the z06...