F1 Chat Thread
06-11-2019, 01:48 PM
#4241
Safety Car
Is the Stewards decision on the Vettel penalty published online anywhere? Seems like someone on this thread or the other one used to publish official decisions like that.
Apparently the stewards saw some things that led them to believe that Vettel checked his mirror and moved toward Hamilton just after regaining control. See https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision
I also think that Vettel could have won the race in spite of the penalty (no matter what you think of the penalty). Instead of whining on the radio, he should have focused, put his head down, and drove faster. He had about 3 seconds on Hamilton and 11 or 12 laps remaining in the race when his team told him about the penalty. They were telling him to focus, head down, drive faster. Instead, he drove around whining on the radio about how unfair it was and how they were "stealing his victory." He had enough time and the car capable of winning in spite of the penalty. He chose to be a whiner instead of being a winner.
BTW, others (some with more authoritative opinions than me) agree on this. See https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...--nico-rosberg
Apparently the stewards saw some things that led them to believe that Vettel checked his mirror and moved toward Hamilton just after regaining control. See https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision
I also think that Vettel could have won the race in spite of the penalty (no matter what you think of the penalty). Instead of whining on the radio, he should have focused, put his head down, and drove faster. He had about 3 seconds on Hamilton and 11 or 12 laps remaining in the race when his team told him about the penalty. They were telling him to focus, head down, drive faster. Instead, he drove around whining on the radio about how unfair it was and how they were "stealing his victory." He had enough time and the car capable of winning in spite of the penalty. He chose to be a whiner instead of being a winner.
BTW, others (some with more authoritative opinions than me) agree on this. See https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...--nico-rosberg
06-11-2019, 01:57 PM
#4242
The leader of the race lost his concentration when his closest competitor was within 0.6 seconds and looked, at least to these eyes, that he, Vettel, would soon be passed by Hamilton using DRS. When Vettel ran off the road, he didn’t do what the vast majority of drivers would do, and that is to back off of the throttle slightly in order to help regain control of the car. Instead, Vettel kept his foot down and proceeded to re-enter the racing surface in what was undeniably an unsafe fashion, which is a direct violation of F1 rules, causing a competitor to have to brake in order to avoid a collision; one that would have taken both competitors out in a very tight area with a wall on both sides.
Regardless, I really wish that the Stewards had made Vettel give up the position and let them slug it out on the racing surface; something Hamilton surely would have preferred.
Bish
Regardless, I really wish that the Stewards had made Vettel give up the position and let them slug it out on the racing surface; something Hamilton surely would have preferred.
Bish
Let the drivers sort it out on track, NASCAR style. The teams will hate it, because there will be a lot of broken carbon bits, but such is life, if you don't want the stewards penalizing every little thing.
06-11-2019, 03:02 PM
#4243
Le Mans Master
Honestly, about the only thing I can see to do is make the out of bounds lines (whatever those are, that's inconsistent as well) monitored electronically and have a computer make the call. If a car forces you to take evasive action then the stewards can override the computer. Otherwise the violation is enforced. It's kinda like what NASCAR does on pit lane violations now.
Have a good one,
Mike
Have a good one,
Mike
06-11-2019, 03:06 PM
#4244
Team Owner
In my opinion let them race if they happen to go off track let them try gather the car back and race on, no penalty.
06-11-2019, 09:00 PM
#4245
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2001
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2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
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I just watched the 2016 Monaco video at no time did Lewis leave the track and while coming back on almost push Daniel to the wall. While on the track after the off he did protect his position but Daniel was behind him. This is not the same thing as Canada.
Last edited by pjazz; 06-11-2019 at 09:03 PM.
06-11-2019, 09:25 PM
#4246
Team Owner
No he cut the chicane and had more control than Vettel then actively blocked which is far more deserving of a penalty.
06-11-2019, 09:55 PM
#4247
Race Director
Thread Starter
Here is the 2016 Monaco video:
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
06-11-2019, 11:50 PM
#4248
Melting Slicks
Pro Mechanic
Member Since: Nov 2013
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Lewis didn't want to overrun the chicane at Monaco in 2016 and Vettel didn't want to go off track at Canada, if the Monaco off wasn't a penalty this certainly wasn't.
In my opinion let them race if they happen to go off track let them try gather the car back and race on, no penalty.
In my opinion let them race if they happen to go off track let them try gather the car back and race on, no penalty.
Let 'em race.
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06-12-2019, 07:04 AM
#4249
Le Mans Master
On a different note, my wife and I have started watching "The 24 hour war" (available with Amazon Prime) ahead of LeMans. Good documentary between Ferrari and Ford!
Have a good one,
Mike
06-12-2019, 09:43 AM
#4251
Team Owner
06-12-2019, 09:46 AM
#4252
Team Owner
Whichever side you are on penalty no penalty, if Monaco was not deserving the other certainly was not
Last edited by 93Polo; 06-12-2019 at 09:47 AM.
06-12-2019, 10:53 AM
#4253
Here is the 2016 Monaco video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
How about back @ 2017 @ US GP when Verstappen went off track (tbh he had nowhere to go but...) and overtook Raikkonen for 3rd place. I seem to recall him getting a 5 sec penalty for this and thus moving back from 3rd to 4th. Somehow I dont recall him pulling any melodramas but hey.... That suited Ferrari perfectly did it not?
Last edited by Lavender; 06-12-2019 at 11:00 AM.
06-12-2019, 10:56 AM
#4254
Melting Slicks
Here is the 2016 Monaco video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
Yes, he did cut the chicane.
Did he block or not?
As far as Vettel is concerned, simply hitting the grass in slicks at over 100mph is penalty enough IMO.
No way could he have been in COMPLETE control when he first hit pavement again.
This is why a penalty shouldn't have been issued.
Should there be no penalty for Vettel losing the car in the corner when under pressure from a competitor, and then not trying to regain control of the car in a safe fashion? Not in my book.
Bish
06-12-2019, 11:16 AM
#4255
Hamilton had been all over the back of Vettel for a couple of laps and was well positioned to potentially pass in a lap or two under DRS. Vettel makes a complete ****-up going into a tight corner; and instead of trying to regain control whilst off the racing circuit, he, Vettel, keeps his foot flat on the gas coming back onto the racing circuit in an unsafe fashion, causing Hamilton to have to brake and leave the racing circuit to avoid an accident.
Should there be no penalty for Vettel losing the car in the corner when under pressure from a competitor, and then not trying to regain control of the car in a safe fashion? Not in my book.
Bish
Should there be no penalty for Vettel losing the car in the corner when under pressure from a competitor, and then not trying to regain control of the car in a safe fashion? Not in my book.
Bish
06-12-2019, 12:11 PM
#4256
Race Director
Thread Starter
How about back @ 2017 @ US GP when Verstappen went off track (tbh he had nowhere to go but...) and overtook Raikkonen for 3rd place. I seem to recall him getting a 5 sec penalty for this and thus moving back from 3rd to 4th.
Somehow I dont recall him pulling any melodramas but hey.... That suited Ferrari perfectly did it not?
Hamilton had been all over the back of Vettel for a couple of laps and was well positioned to potentially pass in a lap or two under DRS. Vettel makes a complete ****-up going into a tight corner; and instead of trying to regain control whilst off the racing circuit, he, Vettel, keeps his foot flat on the gas coming back onto the racing circuit in an unsafe fashion, causing Hamilton to have to brake
and leave the racing circuit to avoid an accident.
Should there be no penalty for Vettel losing the car in the corner when under pressure from a competitor,
and then not trying to regain control of the car in a safe fashion? Not in my book.
).No, Vettel didn't deserve a penalty. This was a racing incident. He was doing everything that any racer is going to do when put in the same situation: do everything possible to not lose the position. Period. Did you (Vettel) screw up? Yes. How do you (Vettel) respond to that? Minimize the mistake and stay ahead of your opponent. Period. That's the only thing that matters to a racer at that point.
Hamilton had 9 laps after the incident to get past Vettel and was unable, before he found out Vettel was getting the penalty. It didn't happen. That tells me that Hamilton wasn't going to get by, unless Vettel screwed up again.
06-12-2019, 12:36 PM
#4257
Team Owner
Max was being overly optimistic trying to overtake and end up using a large curb. I have mixed feelings on this one which is why I like a grass then asphalt runoff. If you can make it stick on the grass good for you but giving them runoff to abuse opens the door for questionable calls. It isn't the same series but Zanardi's pass at Laguna Seca comes to mind. It is widely regarded as a brilliant move. However, using Max's precedent would be deemed illegal and a penalty. You have to leave room for amazing moves but as in Zanardi's case the track gives the move real risk.
06-12-2019, 12:38 PM
#4258
06-12-2019, 12:39 PM
#4259
Team Owner
06-12-2019, 12:49 PM
#4260