Sokam

Hi Everyone,

I have a question on what my co-driver should cover next season on my 2017 zo6. He is planning to do at least two events a month with me. I will try to do at least 3 or more a month. He has much more experience than I do which is why I'm considering this in the first place to learn from him. The car will take a ton of abuse so I really can't let him just do it for free and the experience. He is possibly moving in the fall and wouldn't be driving his own car if It wasn't for this. He probably would be co-driving with someone else but with nowhere near the same amount of expense to maintain as this Zo6. I will be running SS and I just need to pick up Solo storm(200$) and a new set of rims(1000$) and tires (1600$).

Thanks for any help!

v10climber

Co-drive arrangements are kind of hard to draw comparisons on because every situation is kind of unique. I assume you're just talking about local events? If you're planning on running one set of tires a year an easy option is to just have your co-driver buy half the tires. If you're going to be running the car a lot more than him than perhaps a more fair solution is to calculate your cost per run which is typically just tire cost divided by number of runs you get from a set. Then add like $2 per run to cover brakes/gas/oil/etc. So for your car maybe $13 to $14 per run. Then whenever he wants to run a event with you he just reimburses you for the number of runs he took that day.

However, it sounds like he's faster than you and one of the reasons you're having him drive with you is so that he can coach you and make you faster? I'd say that warrants a sizable discount on his co-drive fee. Especially if you're expecting him to help you with car setup and ride along with you for driver development.

l98tpi

If co-drive is all year usually split cost of tires and brakes. If travel then split travel cost.

With a co-drive that is helping to train you to drive better and car setup, you may decrease their split cost some. Knowledge is something you can’t really put a price on

rbl

Why do you need a co-driver in the first place?

Seems like a heck of an expense and wear and tear. You can probably get all the help you're looking for free by just asking and you would also get a lot more diverse perspective.

From my perspective I would want him to pay considerably more than half ... maybe all.

oharal

As mentioned, codriving differs for everyone's specific situation. My friend and I did a 3 event campaign of SCCA solo events at Dixie, Bristol and even nationals last year. It was our first time doing national level events and my car isn't setup well enough yet so we took his good ES Miata. We split two sets of Bridgestones, hotels and fuel.

Sokam

Maybe all of what? I don't need a co-driver. But having someone that has 25 years of experience and has been a national champ seems like the best way to get me (a beginner) up to speed as fast as possible. He was a national champ in FWD but I think he will be able to transition to RWD after a few events. I know most of you guys wouldn't want someone beating the ***** of your Corvette for nothing at all and I get that. That's why I'm trying to see what people think I should do. I got the car to autocross it.

Josh67

On top of the training aspect co drivers also help to get and keep the tires warm, a fairly big advantage in autocross. Ever notice all the fast guys are in the dual driver line?

l98tpi

exactly- two driver is an advantage to be able to get the tires up to optimum temp in autox. And this is dependent on surface and temperature. If above 85 degrees and sunny, two driver cars will work to keep the tire temps down.

mattastick

To answer your question (as someone that's been both the co-driver and car owner in your situation), it depends what you're each trying to get out of the deal. If you're providing the data and the car, and he's teaching you, you're getting value out of that knowledge. Is the value of that knowledge/experience more to you than the cost of your tires/brakes/fuel? I can't answer that for you, you need to answer that on your own. I can tell you the deals that I've had with people in the past:

The first few years I autocrossed, I never drove a car I owned, and only drove a couple cars more than once. The value that I brought to the table was setup help (I worked for a shock company at the time, and could help people with car setup). If they felt like the setup input was sufficient, then there was no cash exchanged. Some cars in this time I wasn't able to help out with setup, and money changed hands, typically in the form of lunch/dinner, but could have been entry fees and I think the most I paid was $50/event for 1 car. One guy I had a bet with that if I beat him, the event was free. If he beat me, it would cost me $60 or something like that. I'm glad I made that bet when I did, because apparently getting beat lit a fire under his ***, and I'm not sure I could do it again.

Last year, I was the car owner, and wanted a faster co-driver to help get better at driving. So I talked to the local hotshoe, and locked him down for most of the season with the following deal: Any contingency tires stay with the car, and cash/gift certificates you win you keep. As long as you beat me, the ride is free, but if I start beating you, we'll have to revisit the costs. At the end of the year, I got 1 free tire from the deal, plus some stuff that he gave me (he didn't think 1 tire was sufficient for all of the tires he burnt up, and he had some stuff that I could use that he wasn't). The car finished 5th at Nationals with him behind the wheel, and me in 18th or something dumb (stupid cones). The data was actually more useful for me pointing out where he needed to change his driving to go faster than it was for me (he could make changes, where I seemingly can't), but it was a fun year regardless.

rbl

All of the fees, tires, brakes and fuel ... that all.

Past credentials do not mean he can teach you anything or that you can learn anything. Walk first then take off and run. IMO you will gain much more valuable experience with simple seat time (for you not him) and coaching from other folks at the track with diversity.

But then if you bought a 2017 Z06 to autocross I'd guess you're pretty flush and if he's your bud why ask for anything

v10climber

Obviously IMO and all that. But you're never going to get a past national champ to co-drive your car and cover all the costs of running the car. They likely have their own car or could easily pick up another codrive that is a lot cheaper. To me the situation the OP described is more that he wants the codriver in his car. Not that the codriver wants to drive his car.

rbl

Obviously - and it was said with some sarcasm. Point is that he needs the seat time after which he can get into the go fast mode and find a coach.

v10climber

I disagree. If you have the opportunity having a coach from day 1 is by far the best option and one that is encouraged in autocross (and almost every other sport ever). We always have instructors available for the novice students and some clubs even require an instructor ride with a novice on their first runs. You can build good habits and a base to work from instead of having to start over with the basics. When you hop in the car with a student after they've been autocrossing for 6 months and you realize they're been clutching in every time they hit the brakes and drive with one hand on the shifter and the other on the wheel you have to spend time correcting these basic issues instead of actually teaching them to go faster.

The only time I recommend people hold back on instruction a bit is when they're having to pay for it like an evo school or something that is a little more expensive. Use the cheap/free instruction available at your local events like the instructors or even having fellow competitors ride along and give you tips and get a reasonable base. Then once you've got a bit of a foundation and you can find your way around the course and are pushing the car a bit then you can go ahead and spend the money on some good instruction that will help fine tune any of the basic issues you're having and then focus on getting you faster.

rbl

A good summary of what I said

Sokam

I would like him to co drive it with me. Not need. I will have fun by myself. He doesnt have a car he would drive. The past year he has ridden in multiple people's car.

xtremeyolks

I can tell you this year I co-drove my friend's 991 GT3 in SS and paid for half the tires. Contingency money went to tires. We split fuel/hotel going to the national events. Previous to that I ran a car in SM and had a codriver who paid my entry fees since I got hoosiers for free at that time. Really it's whatever you're comfortable with.