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I just had to share the difference between an alignment at any place and an alignment at a place that knows what they are doing.
Before (dealer attempted to set alignment after some trans warranty work):
And After (TPC Racing/DSC Sport):
I drove the 'before' alignment at VIR on labor day last year. It was twitchy and pulled right, but not bad enough that I felt it was a safety issue. I can't wait to go back in March and feel the difference after seeing those measurements.
Thanks to Tom Chan and Mike Levitas at TPC Racing. Best guys to work with!
As a purveyor of high quality alignments, I've been on this bandwagon a long time.
The difference between the standard tire shop alignment and one from a specialty shop is night and day.
The typical alignment guy is paid on a percentage basis ('flat-rate'), making him highly motivated to crank out as many as possible in a day.
In CA anyway, all that is legally required is that work is performed to the 'minimum accepted industry standards', which means within factory tolerances. There's a wide range +/- involved... it can be in spec but still swerve off the road when you let go of the wheel. If you're not concerned about that, a LOT of time can be shaved from the job. Most cars will still drive OK. If not, very few people will actually notice anything amiss, and fewer still will bring it back and complain. If you're discerning, or want something more performance oriented, find a specialist but don't expect it for $69.95.
ALWAYS ask for a printout of the settings, and don't be afraid to ask why any readings aren't the same side-to-side. Alignments aren't magic, and if they can't get the car 'square' there's a reason. If they can't explain it in plain English, maybe they don't really understand the angles themselves...
Sorry for the rant!
...or is that rear toe out?
Looks like a Hunter machine, typically read -toe values as toe out.
I don't know how a C7 reacts to rear toe, but I wouldn't set it there unless I had a damn good reason...
There's a big long thread in the C7Z section if you search for alignment around the research and experiences behind these numbers from Mike Levitas. It's a pretty good read if you get time and want to find it.
...or is that rear toe out?
Looks like a Hunter machine, typically read -toe values as toe out.
I don't know how a C7 reacts to rear toe, but I wouldn't set it there unless I had a damn good reason...
Usually toe out in the rear is not good, but the toe gain on these cars with stock suspension is a lot so it's recommended starting with a little toe out, which will cause it to toe in with any suspension travel. If the car has the solid rear toe links (Granatelli or LG) than you'll want a touch of toe in for the rear due to the toe curve changing by eliminating the cam and going with a threaded link.
The only thing I see that I don't agree with is the -1.0 rear caster notated at the top. Typically you want + rear caster in these and much closer to +.8 - +1.0.
Usually toe out in the rear is not good, but the toe gain on these cars with stock suspension is a lot so it's recommended starting with a little toe out, which will cause it to toe in with any suspension travel. If the car has the solid rear toe links (Granatelli or LG) than you'll want a touch of toe in for the rear due to the toe curve changing by eliminating the cam and going with a threaded link.
The only thing I see that I don't agree with is the -1.0 rear caster notated at the top. Typically you want + rear caster in these and much closer to +.8 - +1.0.
Since these pictures were taken at TPC the -1 is probably a mistake in printing it on the display. TPC/DSC is the one that says it should be set at +0.7.
I was about to ask the same thing. It looks like the front and rear toe are in the same direction. But I'm a c6 guy. So maybe it calls for something different.
I was about to ask the same thing. It looks like the front and rear toe are in the same direction. But I'm a c6 guy. So maybe it calls for something different.
Both are toe out. See RichieRich's comment about toe curve on the C7Z.
i sure hope you were sitting in drivers seat. it make a HUGE difference on alignment.
last 2 ive done, if i so much as moved my arm in the drivers seat it changed the camber, etc etc numbers.
new machines are incredibly accurate.
Um, not true in a C7 unless you've changed to the solid rear toe links. Factory suspension will require slight static toe out in the rear due to the rear suspension geometry and toe gain curve.
Um, not true in a C7 unless you've changed to the solid rear toe links. Factory suspension will require slight static toe out in the rear due to the rear suspension geometry and toe gain curve.
Even GM's own specs, Document ID: 4042550 , which is for a stock car, call for rear toe in. I measure toe in inches not millimeters so I don't know what -0.5mm is in inches, but toe out is not what you want.
Wheel Alignment
Caution: Using these wheel alignment settings may cause excessive tire wear. Only use these wheel alignment settings for racing or competitive driving. Excessive tire wear is not covered under the vehicle warranty.
If the vehicle is equipped with the Z51 Performance Package or is a Z06, the racing and competitive driving wheel alignment settings should be set as follows:
Alignment should only be done by adjusting the lower control arm cam bolts and by removing a maximum of one washer between the upper control arms and frame.
Alignment values are targets. See your dealer for tolerances.
Front (per corner)
• Caster: +7.0 degrees
• Camber: -2.0 degrees
• Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Rear (per corner)
• Caster: 0 degrees
• Camber: -2.0 degrees
• Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Thrust Angle: 0 degrees
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
Originally Posted by 3X2
Even GM's own specs, Document ID: 4042550 , which is for a stock car, call for rear toe in. I measure toe in inches not millimeters so I don't know what -0.5mm is in inches, but toe out is not what you want.
Wheel Alignment
Caution: Using these wheel alignment settings may cause excessive tire wear. Only use these wheel alignment settings for racing or competitive driving. Excessive tire wear is not covered under the vehicle warranty.
If the vehicle is equipped with the Z51 Performance Package or is a Z06, the racing and competitive driving wheel alignment settings should be set as follows:
Alignment should only be done by adjusting the lower control arm cam bolts and by removing a maximum of one washer between the upper control arms and frame.
Alignment values are targets. See your dealer for tolerances.
Front (per corner)
• Caster: +7.0 degrees
• Camber: -2.0 degrees
• Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Rear (per corner)
• Caster: 0 degrees
• Camber: -2.0 degrees
• Toe: 0.05 degrees toe in
Thrust Angle: 0 degrees
While I do disagree with you, C7s that get tracked should start with slight toe out, you are arguing about roughly 1/16th of a difference in TOTAL toe from TPC's recommended .5mm out to your .05 degrees in. So roughly 1/32" per corner as .05 degrees of toe is roughly .02" for a 26.6" wheel. TPC mapped out the curve and as Rich mentioned, you get gain through the movement.
Even GM's own specs, Document ID: 4042550 , which is for a stock car, call for rear toe in. I measure toe in inches not millimeters so I don't know what -0.5mm is in inches, but toe out is not what you want.
Toe out definitely helps the car rotate. It's a nice thing for front heavy, front wheel drive cars on the race track. I'm not sure it's what I'd want for a Corvette. There is some toe change with suspension travel (bump steer). If it toes in for compression and out for rebound, then starting with a bit of toe out wouldn't be horrible.
BTW, the Google conversion/calculator thing is quit handy for other calculations. If you want to know how many BTU's go into your brakes for a full stop from 120mph, you can ask Google that as well.
02-19-2018, 04:32 PM
Alignment...before/after
