mp4659

JRitt@essex

Our CP8350/325mm Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kit is a reasonably priced alternative to the Wilwood offerings discussed in this thread. There are many customers on this forum running this kit, and it has won plenty of races in T1 competition (what it was originally designed to do).

Our kit fits inside OEM front C5 Z06 wheels and runs a 20mm thick pad. The pad can even be as tall as 50mm, which gives more pad volume. Every pad manufacturer under the sun makes the pad shape in all of their compounds, and they top out at about $220 retail for race compounds.

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-C5vette

Our front kit shaves 16 unsprung lbs. off the nose, and fits behind the OEM 17" C5 Z06 front wheels without a spacer. It also clears 18" rear C5Z wheels when run on the front.

Although we don't suggest doing it, some of our customers run OEM-style discs with our kit, since the offset on our disc is the same as stock.

Spare iron rings are very affordable at $249 each , and they are also quite beefy and last longer than anything else in that size range.

We also have a matching rear kit that uses the same disc, caliper bracket, and caliper body. The piston sizes on the rear setup are considerably smaller though. Having the same front and rear setup is nice because you don't need to keep many spares on hand.

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-c5vette

If you scroll down towards the bottom of our blog, you can find lots of feedback and reviews on our kit.

Here's an example of the chief instructor at Carolina Motorsports Park kicking butt with this kit:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...n-brake-system

Feel free to shoot me a PM or email me with any questions.

Walt G

This thread is a few months old, but figured I'd bring this one back rather than start a new one.

I'm considering the Wilwood 140-14557 for my C5Z, which I use as a 'nice day daily driver' and occasional HPDE car. I drive the car hard at HPDE's, so I need a race pad when at the track. I've been running Hawk DTC-60's on the stock calipers this summer, but as expected, I'm seeing a lot of pad taper and have already cracked my first rotor. An upgrade for season 2 was always my plan.

There is plenty of information about race pads for this kit, but what about a low dust daily driving street pad? Sounds like anything in the 6620 or 6617 size would work in this caliper (can put a thinner pad into the caliper made for a thicker pad, just not the other way around). Any suggestions?

It would be nice if the street pad material was close enough to the race pad material that I could use the same rotors track and street (pad transfer/bedding compatible with one another), but I doubt that's really possible. I don't mind swapping rotors on track days, but I really wouldn't need a 2-piece hat/rotor for the street ($$$). Is there a compatible cheap one-piece rotor that will work (fit with these calipers) when I'm not on the track?

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

For a quality aftermarket pad I would recommend the Carbotech 1521 pad 100% made in USA. Low dust and performs like OEM and is 100% non-corrosive dust will not harm your wheels or paint.

The great thing about Carbotech brake pads is all their compounds are compatible with each other. So, when going from the 1521(Street) to the XP series (Track) padshttp://ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds2.asp all you have to do is swap pads and go no re-bedding no cleaning of the rotors just swap pads and go. This also saves you the cost of having to get a separate set of rotors for track or street.

The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non-corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.

You can order by calling me at 216-780-8825 or direct at http://ampdautosport.com/brake-pads/corvette/ Use promo code z28 at check out and receive 5% forum discount.

NemesisC5

Sub

Walt G

@Todd_TCE: Can you explain the pros/cons of the 'full floating' rotor in the 140-13743-N kit verses the non-full-floating rotors in the 140-14557 kit? If a customer didn't need the nickle plated calipers or thermlock pistons of the more expensive kit, but wanted the full floating rotors, it seems like that shouldn't be too much of an upcharge (just the hats are different I think, and maybe $90 more per side if they were to be purchased a la carte ???).

Or are the caliper mounting blocks perhaps different if the two rotor types place the disk in a slightly different position relative to the hub?

Thanks!

0Todd TCE

That and a few other things that came up. Bear with me it may be a bit confusing also.


Look at it this way: the 14557 kit is the low buck kit. It was produced as a direct result of guys not wanting to fork out the money on the 13743 kit. But who insisted the need for the 20mm pad (really?)...The sole purpose was to offer the fat pad, low cost, anodized caliper, without thermlocks, with fixed mount hats.....at a cost that some believe was necessary. Some of that from this very forum.

Pros and cons are pretty obvious but let's look deeper too. The pros of the costly kit: full floating hat/rotors for thermal expansion, fit with the thermlock pistons for improved heat rejection....on the flip side all that's gone in the budget kit, including the nickel plating.

Now here is what it gets more complicated.

Both kits come with the 20mm pads. That's great for the track. (personally I don't think it's a deal breaker unless you run really long stints...) and with that you have NO choices for street pads but the 17mm pad and some pad spacers. Next, both kits take up a ton more wheel clearance due to that pad size and body size to house it. The more costly kit also has the reverse hat that has a countersunk surface limiting wheel pad diameter, the low buck kit using the bolted hat and rotor has the smooth face for more wheel options.

Let's go a bit further here. The full floaters won't fit the street kits (17mm pad) but I do believe they can be fit to the budget kit. Yes this will require a substitution of the hat and the bolt kits. About $100ea more on the hats....and probably another $40ea on the bolt kits. I'd figure on $300ish

And....a bit more convoluted here...the Nickel kit is going away. Last I heard there was one available last week. (And I posted it at a crazy low price in the vendor area of the RR an AX section above- so you'd need to act quick to grab it if still available) The black Ano is also going away. All the base calipers will now be T3 Grey Ano and that's likely to be the default of the both the 'race' and 'budget race' kit if they both remain in the catalog.

Not sure if that helped or confused you more but it's whats what here.

TC

Walt G

Thanks. I was mostly looking for the pros/cons of the full floating rotor verses the fixed though... you touched on it when you said 'for thermal expansion'.

So, could one reasonably expect the same rotor (both kits use the same cast iron part of the rotor) to be less likely, or slower to, crack because of the full floating hat allowing it to expand more easily as it heats up?

With either of these kits, what kind of life are people getting out of the rotors doing track days? Do people get more days out of them with the full floating hat, all else being equal?

Also, I don't understand the comment about needing a pad spacer with 17mm pads. I would think that the backing plates are the same thickness on the 20mm pads and the 17mm pads... the 20mm pads just start out 3mm thicker (more pad material), but either pad would be the same thickness when fully worn out. So wouldn't the 20mm pads also need pad spacers if you wanted to get all of that extra life out of them that you paid for? Or are the 20mm pads 'fully worn out' while still having 3mm more material than a fully worn out 17mm pad, which doesn't make sense to me unless you are just going for the extra insulation between rotor and brake fluid.

If the 20mm pads need pad spacers before they are fully worn out, then they are no better than the 17mm pads for long endurance races since you'd need to stop to put the pad spacers in to get all the life out of them.

Sorry for the newbie questions... lots to absorb here.

0Todd TCE

Yes, the floating rotors allow for growth expansion. Generally considered the preferred method for track use. The ss hardware of the fixed hat helps control heat transfer to the aluminum a bit but one could argue being bolted you'd look for equal expansion rate in the iron, ss and alum hat. Which we know is not really the case. They can also bandaide hub flex some. The down side is that they are lose or rattle when cold. The design here is 'race' not 'dual purpose' where you find a variety of dampening devices as part of the float mount interface; bellville washers or other means of allowing growth without the harsh nature of them cold. Unlike others these are also a more hardcore Tee drive not a round bobbin. That makes them easier on the hats as the contact point is spread over the full width of the drive part rather than the point of a circle in a round drive. That said we seldom sell a full floating system to anyone doing a kit that sees both street and track use. Great stuff, everyone's design, needed.....ehh, jury is out a but on how badly.

Rotor life should be the same regardless of the attachment. Costs about the same in both also. How much life? No real way to predict it as the variables are huge; demand, driving style, cooling, pad choice.....Years to a few weekends. Most feedback from buyers show rotor life to be 3-4X that of the one piece 14" rotor. At a cost perhaps 3X the one piece. But you could exceed that if the days and track don't place the demands on it.

Pads: the 'normal' caliper is a 17mm pad, the race caliper is 20mm. They are NOT the same caliper. They share the same body but one is milled down more for size. Think of it this way: you put a street pad in the race caliper it's 15% worn out before it touches the rotor. So; you back space the pad with a 1/8 spacer plate thus keeping the pistons in the caliper. Conversely the 20mm pad is only 15% fatter and with fitment issues for stock wheels you really better need the added pad for racing. And they cost more money, have limited compounds etc. On the other flip side you can't get a bare 17mm caliper- they're all powder coated once the nickel is gone. PC holds heat in the body.

Yes to maximize the pad wear regardless of the thickness I'd urge wear spacers or plates be used to keep the pistons extension to a minimum, thus less chance of them binding in the bore at a greater exposed distance. *however no they are not needed as the pad should run out before the piston falls out.

Rx7Rob

I finally purchased another set of rear rims and will be purchasing a BBK before the fall. Just last night I was looking through the Wilwood info.

The 6620 pad shape is available in a Wilwood Polymatrix E compound. I believe that's a street / track / autox pad in the 20mm thickness.

Earlier in this thread Duk said he's running these calipers without wheels spacers. As long as it fits with adequate clearance, what difference does it make if it fills the available space?

If rotor life is the nearly the same between full floaters and fixed, why spend the $?

0Todd TCE

Good info.

The E compound is available yes. Hard to call it a street compound however. Great canyon run pad, great AX pad, in fact its in my two rental Hill Climb cars. But under light pedal pressure around town one customer noted it sounded like he was driving a garbage truck....I'd opt for 10s or 20s and pad spacers. My suggestion..your mileage may vary.

The change to floating vs fixed is a good debate. I can't make a firm recommendation for the floaters but for my most hard core track users.

That said all things considered here; if you only do a couple events a year, occasional entrant etc, then why not simply take the direct approach with the standard kits with color and the thinner pads? No issue with wheel fit, no limited pad options....from a pure driving perspective you'll never, ever, know the difference. But...that's why it's on the menu; everyone wants something a bit different it seems.


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