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C5 Wheel Hop - HPDE

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Old 04-24-2018, 01:34 PM
  #21  
emptnest
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Originally Posted by jlaw1313@comcast.net
If you decide to upgrade with Z06 springs I would replace both front and rear. This would keep weight tranfer balanced. Alot of suspension engineering to consider. Way over my head. I let GM do the math. The Z06 springs, sways w/ metal endlinks, and shocks feel planted and well balanced to me for my skill level. I am very satisfied with the NT-01 tires; 275/40/17 front 305/35/18 rear on Z06 wheels with this set up. I would consider myself advanced intermidiate. I am considering a shock upgrade and moving to a square setup for tire sizes.
My understanding is that for the C5, the Z51 front spring is identical to the Z06 front spring, even sharing the same part number. That's why I mentioned changing only the rear.

Last edited by emptnest; 04-24-2018 at 01:41 PM.
Old 04-24-2018, 01:39 PM
  #22  
emptnest
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Originally Posted by duk007
Was this at the HPDE on Saturday? I was there in a silver c5z. I was there all day so I must have seen you at some time ( there were several silver c5’s) mine has a number plate “072”. Im an instructor there, reach out if you see me there , I’d be more than happy to go out for a lap or two and help diagnose the problem. I’ve had rear end noise in my own car in the past and I know what, bearings, traction control, and dif noises sound/feel like. Happy to help.
Yes it was this past Sat. I remember your car; you passed me at least a couple of times (maybe more, ha ha). Mine is a pewter FRC, with black C4 A mold wheels.

Thanks for your offer. I'll look for you next time I'm there, which will probably be May 18.
Old 04-24-2018, 06:47 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by emptnest
Yes it was this past Sat. I remember your car; you passed me at least a couple of times (maybe more, ha ha). Mine is a pewter FRC, with black C4 A mold wheels.

Thanks for your offer. I'll look for you next time I'm there, which will probably be May 18.

I should be there on the 18th. I remember seeing your car, you were parked off to the side and behind me.

I was probably trying to keep up with that P-Cup car that was setting the track on fire. I can normally keep up with most of those overgrown Volkswagens, but boy was that car quick!

Happy to go with you for a lap or two and listen to your issue. I should also be there on Thursday’s TNiA as long as it doesn’t rain
Old 04-24-2018, 08:05 PM
  #24  
emptnest
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Originally Posted by emptnest
63 Corvette: I note that you specifically recommend the 2004 shocks.

I see a lot of forum members (but most of them are not necessarily track guys, and most certainly don't have your experience - which I respect) recommend C6 Z06 shocks, C6 Z51 sways, and C5 Z06 springs. Do you recommend staying with 2004 Z06 for all components? And if so, why?
nevermind - I did a search and found several threads comparing those choices. 2004 is the better performer, but about $250 more than the C6. It’s a Performance vs value choice.

Plus, staying with the full C5 Z package of components conforms to the advice of selecting it as a system , not just a collection of components.

Last edited by emptnest; 04-24-2018 at 08:08 PM.
Old 04-30-2018, 10:30 AM
  #25  
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Did a break away torque test.

Results:
In neutral : 60-65 ft lbs - both sides
In gear : > 150 ft lbs - both sides (actually, couldn’t get either side to turn while in gear).

Looks pretty average for 66,000 miles. Figure eight test drive (at 15 mph) was quiet with no unusual sounds or vibrations.

Last edited by emptnest; 04-30-2018 at 05:25 PM.
Old 04-30-2018, 03:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by crimlwC6
I would suspect shocks first then LSD. I was told my LSD was shot but I've kept racing for another 2 years on it. With the exception of trying to put heat in the tires leaving grid in first gear I don't get wheel hop (I did upgrade to penske coilovers 2 years ago). The only time I had people telling me they could see wheel hop or what I observed when sharing the car with another driver was solved by the penskes. I think you have a bad shock or two.
An LSD that is shot with worn out clutches and doesn't keep tires from spinning is different than one where the clutches are too tight. When they are too tight you don't get a proper rotational speed difference between the rear wheels when the car turns and the axle starts chattering, bumping and making all sorts of noises almost like it would do if it had a locked diff. The LSD lubricant is supposed to keep that from happening but sometimes it doesn't prevent the problem.

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Old 05-01-2018, 09:15 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by emptnest
Yes it was this past Sat. I remember your car; you passed me at least a couple of times (maybe more, ha ha). Mine is a pewter FRC, with black C4 A mold wheels.

Thanks for your offer. I'll look for you next time I'm there, which will probably be May 18.


I was there too in the open wheel group. (Blue Formula Ford with white racing stripes) I was on grid when you came off the track. I saw your car and thought, hmm, 17's all around. Not many people run that setup these days due to tire size availability. Not saying that's your problem, it's just what stood out to me.
I'm not going to be much help since I don't track my C5Z, only autocross. I can say that the only time I've ever wheel hopped was during a launch. Never coming out of turns, even at lower autocross speeds.
The default answer to posts like this is usually to call Sam Strano at stranoparts.com.
Old 05-01-2018, 05:49 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jschliffka
I was there too in the open wheel group. (Blue Formula Ford with white racing stripes) I was on grid when you came off the track. I saw your car and thought, hmm, 17's all around. Not many people run that setup these days due to tire size availability. Not saying that's your problem, it's just what stood out to me.
I'm not going to be much help since I don't track my C5Z, only autocross. I can say that the only time I've ever wheel hopped was during a launch. Never coming out of turns, even at lower autocross speeds.
The default answer to posts like this is usually to call Sam Strano at stranoparts.com.
yeah - I had those wheels left over from my C4, and I like the Nitto NT01’s, which (for 315’s) are about $300 less for a set of four in 17 vs 18 inch. I guess if I used scrubs I would have a greater choice of tires, but shipping would consume most of my savings. And then I would need to buy four 18 inch Z06 rears.

I probably misused the term of wheel hop. Bill Dearborn helped set me straight on that. Let’s say I had a vibration coming from the rear end.

Ive received good info from Sam on other topics, and have hoped to see him reply. I’ll reach out to him 👍

see you at Pitt some time.
Old 05-18-2018, 12:23 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by duk007
I should be there on the 18th. I remember seeing your car, you were parked off to the side and behind me.

I was probably trying to keep up with that P-Cup car that was setting the track on fire. I can normally keep up with most of those overgrown Volkswagens, but boy was that car quick!

Happy to go with you for a lap or two and listen to your issue. I should also be there on Thursday’s TNiA as long as it doesn’t rain

hey Duk007 - are you at Pitt today? Can’t find you in the paddock.
Old 05-22-2018, 07:53 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by emptnest



hey Duk007 - are you at Pitt today? Can’t find you in the paddock.
Sorry I missed that event. I had too much pile up at my company, can’t take the day off when everyone else is working overtime.

I should be at tomorrow’s TNiA . Pitt Race should also have a couple more HPDE’s soon. They are booking tons of events(which is good for the track) but they also understand the need for local grassroots track time as well.
Old 05-22-2018, 08:21 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by emptnest
63 Corvette: I note that you specifically recommend the 2004 shocks.

I see a lot of forum members (but most of them are not necessarily track guys, and most certainly don't have your experience - which I respect) recommend C6 Z06 shocks, C6 Z51 sways, and C5 Z06 springs. Do you recommend staying with 2004 Z06 for all components? And if so, why?
I'm a little late to this thread, but I'd definitely go with the '04 Z06 shocks (that's what I've got on my '00 FRC). They're designed especially for the FRC chassis, which the C6 Z06 shock isn't.

And, Garrett is one of the best advisors you can find on this forum; he's helped me immensely!

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
Old 05-22-2018, 08:55 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by emptnest
What I’m calling wheel hop was a brief vibration, coming only from the rear, much like crossing closely spaced rumble strips.
That's not the same as what is commonly referred to as "wheel hop."

My first suspicion with that is incorrect diff juice or worn clutches in the diff. I'd start with a drain and fill with the AC Delco fluid. The diffs in the vettes are sensitive to fluid and "friction modifiers." The wrong fluid or the wrong mix/blend will cause issues similar to what you describe.

"Wheel hop" feels like the back of the car is falling apart. It's most common from a standing start. On other cars (especially solid axle cars like older F bodies) you can also get a version of wheel hop under braking, but that doesn't usually happen on the vettes with IRS, and it doesn't usually happen with stock or stock(ish) brakes. You have to be really pushing the brake balance more rearward to experience that nightmare. Either way, accelerating or braking, "wheel hop" feels like the car is tearing apart/falling apart. If you've ever experienced it, you won't confuse it with any minor issue.
Originally Posted by sccaGT1racer
Did you have your traction control turned off? I had a friend describing the same thing to me this weekend and it ended up being the active handling coming on in tight turns at summit point.
That's also a possibility.

Originally Posted by VetteDrmr
I'm a little late to this thread, but I'd definitely go with the '04 Z06 shocks (that's what I've got on my '00 FRC). They're designed especially for the FRC chassis, which the C6 Z06 shock isn't.

And, Garrett is one of the best advisors you can find on this forum; he's helped me immensely!

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
You dragged me into it late, too. That's OK. At least this isn't a 15 year old zombie thread.



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