Supercharged111

Any good reading to get a guy started on left foot braking? I always forget about it. My current arch nemesis brakes deeper into corners than I do and seemingly without sacrificing exit speed. I had to back up some braking points myself to keep the car more stable and consistent for a fast exit every time. The thought never occurred to me his secret sauce might just be left foot braking.

Captain Buddha

I learned LFB because I pretty much had to with the cars I race....took me a few laps but when it clicked, it CLICKED and it was a WOW!!!!! moment for sure! Practice on the track or on a sim - or even just sit in your car with it off (and driving with your mind/eyes closed) and visualize the track and the left and right foot each doing their own thing.

AdamBrouillard

I really don't agree with ever teaching anyone to turn-in under power. I generally recommend for beginners to still delay throttle until the apex but just do so in a car setup to understeer readily. As car control skills increase a looser setup can be used as a driver gets used to using the rear tires closer to the limit on entry and exit. More advanced techniques are not really different, they are just pushing the car closer to and riding the edge of oversteer.

I would say the most needed trait to become a top tier driver is an advanced awareness of a car's speed and position in a corner at every instant. To "widen" your vision and take in everything in front of you. . This will help you feel where you are slow and where you can gain time. You would be able to tell instantly that turning in under power causes you to move toward the apex much slower than carrying brakes ( and speed) much deeper.

fatbillybob

Adam,

Can you talk about how you might set a car up for qualifying vs. a sprint race?

Can you talk about 1 or 2 things that a driver does differently in a qualifying lap vs. during a sprint race?

argonaut

Adam - when coaching newbies on track, do you recommend teaching trail braking straight away or 'brake in a straight line, off brake, turn in'?

AdamBrouillard

It really depends on the class, but many run higher pressures during qualifying as the tires have less time to come up to operating pressures. You can also run a different line in the final corner on the lap prior to your qualifying lap. The goal is to simply maximize speed as you cross the start/finish as you start your run. Depending on the track there might also be a way to cheat the final corner of the qualifying lap to gain a bit of time. That's pretty rare though.

AdamBrouillard

I wouldn't direct a new driver to necessarily try to "trail brake", but I also wouldn't direct them to make sure they are off the brakes before turn-in. My only instructions to newer drivers is to try to maximize apex speed while also making sure they can apply throttle as they pass the apex. Generally there will be a bit of brakes held past turn in and then the driver will pick up the throttle sometime during entry as they try to reach the limit before the apex. The goal during this phase is to try to carry enough speed into the corner that throttle can't be picked up until right near the apex. There will be some dabbing the brakes on entry, but we aren't concerned yet with carrying in as much speed as possible. I really just want to see the car at the limit through the entire corner. The entry is more circular than ideal at this point, but we are within a few tenths at most of an ideal corner.

Carrying more speed into entry is just the natural progression from here as the driver tries to get to their apex as quickly as possible. Pushing your entry is a high risk/low reward situation. You will gain time by pushing more and more toward that beautiful spiral shaped trail braking entry, but any mistake can cause you to ruin your exit.

NSFW

Adam, thanks for doing this thread. It's been interesting reading and I really appreciate it.

kdm123

Why does a wet track allow for driving with more yaw? Likewise, why does driving on dirt allow big "drift" angles? Do the slip angles of the tires increase, and if so explain the physics that allow this when otherwise on a dry track such large slip angles would not allow for optimum cornering force?

AdamBrouillard

Typically a given tire in the wet will peak at a lower slip angle than in the dry and have a greater fall off after the peak. A purpose built rain tire will typically have a very soft compound and soft sidewalls and this might cause the slip angle to peak higher than the dry compound, but it still would be in the same basic range. If you've seen anything where a driver in the wet was using really high slip angles with success I'd be curious to see it.

Dirt is another matter entirely though. A good bit of the force an offroad tire produces is from the "digging"action that occurs at high slip-ratios (wheelspin.) This makes the traction circle more of a traction oval with much greater longitudinal than lateral capacity. You need to get the car to a high slip angle to use this great forward tractive ability though. That's why 4 wheel drive is so effective in offroad racing. With rear drive only, the front tires are providing very little cornering force during exit although they do play a large role during entry first during straightline braking and then when the car is pitched sideways.

village idiot

Once thing I learned is there is a huge difference between low traction surfaces and displaceable surfaces (snow, sand, etc).

autoxer6

To help clarify a few comments the apex of the corner is the tightest radius and slowest point of the corner.

The point where you touch the apex curbing may come before, at, or after the apex of the corner. So you may accelerate at the apex of the corner, but before the apex curbing.

kdm123

Just to clarify, so the reason a rally car in the dirt will be fast going sideways (and let's assume it's only RWD) is because the higher slip angles in the dirt create more of a "digging" action, correct?

kdm123

Would it be correct to say that although in the wet the tires don't get more traction with higher slip angles, that it perhaps is less detrimental to lap times if you slide around a bit more? All good drivers in the wet do slide more as they search for grip, it would seem to me. If my idea is correct, how would you explain why a little more sliding in on a wet track is less detrimental to lap times than sliding around on a dry track?

AdamBrouillard

Basically, although technically it's the slip ratio (wheelspin). Also even though it looks quite different, from the driver's perspective, it's the same thing. They are always looking to find the maximum grip that propels them in the ideal direction as quickly as possible. On asphalt the tire just starts to lose grip a lot sooner than on dirt.

AdamBrouillard

Well, you don't have to worry about tires overheating in the wet, so from that perspective sliding is more forgiving. From a grip standpoint though, it's at least as bad as in the dry.

You're definitely going to see people going over the limit more in the wet though. Not only is the limit much lower overall, but the grip levels can change rapidly on different parts of the track. The well worn parts that are typically used have much less grip in the wet than the unworn parts.

Robert R1

Background: Slightly off topic but I thought I'd share my impression of my sim rig now that i've used it for a few weeks. My goals were to keep things sharp while other obligations will keep me from track driving for a while. I started off with a borrowed Logitech G29 with a wobbly stand to get a feel for it but had VR from day 1. While I could go fast in terms of times, it wasn't giving what I'd consider real feedback. The laptimes were a product of just hitting my marks. My first goal isn't times. It's getting good feedback from the system and being consistent lap after lap.

The Setup: With that out of the way, I went to do *many* hours of research to build what I'd consider a rig that I'd build once and never look back. My main game is Assetto Corsa and I generally run the stock setups so I can focus on improving my driving. Instead of fast laptimes, I focus on total race time as that demonstrates consistency over a long haul. I'll likely move to iRacing next. With that said, I ended up with this setup:
- For someone who is horrible at DIY and born with 0 engineering aptitude, this was a herculean task and one I hope never to repeat. With that said, the end product is phenomenal and rigid. I can't emphasize the stiffness of the overall chassis enough especially the front wheel mount. I wish the nuts and bolts selection was better balanced and the product sorely needs step by step instructions. My build consisted of watching youtube videos, pausing them and doing one thing at a time with the help of my wonderful coworkers. I'd love to give it a 10/10 but I have to take 1 point away for lack of instructions and .5 for the uneven mixture of bolts. Overall 8.5/10
- The depth and detail of the motor is a surprise each time I play it. I wish my real track cars had this level of feedback through the wheel! Any issue or numbness I've found has generally been with the different car models in Assetto Corsa itself. I'm debating upgrading to a 30nm so I can run "go kart" level of effort on non power assisted formula and older race cars. This is purely a personal preference thing and right now I'm researching the takeoff's between the 20nm and 30nm setup. The more surprising thing about was the ease of setup. Simucube is a lightweight but powerful application. Setting up your wheel is a 5 min process. No drivers, no boot sequences and when not in use, a simple power off button does the job. It also makes the in-game settings easier to deal with. Just turn off all the sliders! The boot time on the motor PC is a few seconds at best. Overall 10/10
- This was perhaps the most surprising piece of the new setup. I came across it by accident and then sat through some funny youtube translations of a Spanish review but I had a hunch that this thing could do the job. I am highly impressed. The unit it put together really well, the magnetic shifters are a dream to use and the rim has a nice grip and width to it. There was nothing to setup either which makes integration immediate. The buttons/rotary dials are very satisfying to use with great feedback. This is important when you're in VR and can't see the wheel. I haven't used an Ascher or anything super expensive but for the price and being a VR user, I can't imagine something that would be a notable upgrade. The only thing that will wear out it is the rim from heavy usage and that's a cheap replacement that takes less than 5 mins. I'm glad I didn't invest in a quick release because I don't see a reason why I'd replace this setup. Overall 10/10.
- The consistency in braking and the smoothness in the throttle is something anyone can notice within a lap or two. The pedals are extremely well built and highly adjustable. I suggest leaving them stock at first, get used to it and then make minor tweaks. With that said, I feel that the advancement in pedal technology is well behind that of the wheels, motors and chassis. Part of this is likely down the to sim manufacturers not capturing the details that would need to be passed onto the pedal manufacturers. As great as the consistency of the pedal performance is, the lack of tactile feedback is something you can't replace. I'm sure a buttkicker can add to the mix but that's not the same as native feedback into the pedal system itself. I would not be surprised if in the next 3-4 years someone wakes up and does the same for pedals as Direct Drive did for wheels. With that said and within the confines of the current limitations, you absolutely cannot blame the HE Ultimate's for any mistakes you make in braking. The progression in the throttle and brakes is just what you'd want in a real race car and the fact that you can get that lap after lap (unlike real cars!) is a dream to have. I got the 2 pedals because mounting a shifter means that my 4 and 2 year old will have it ripped off within a day or two. If there were pedals in the market that focused on native tactile feedback as I explained, I'd rate these lower but when you compare them to the competition, I doubt anyone will be returning these. Overall 10/10.

The driving experience:

NSFW

l love that the chassis is made of T-slot beams, that means you can tinker with it, bolt stuff to it, etc, if you want to make changes later.

Which vr headset are you using?

Robert R1

NSFW

Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about getting a seat/wheel/pedal setup for a while, but wasn't sure how to deal with the monitors, and the limited space in the room I'd put it in... The VR headset approach changes things a lot, and it seems like a win. Now I need to rethink everything.