a_ahmed

I am curious what offerings of Delrin AF bushings do we have on the market now?

Not interested in metal or polyurethane, just Delrin AF offerings.

Vansteel, Ridetech, Borg Motorsports are names I am familiar with.

Vansteel:

1149.99USD

https://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?f...p=1849&ID=3651

Quite expensive and I've heard they've had issues in the past.

Ridetech:

779USD

https://www.ridetech.com/application...n-bushing-kit/

A lot of money for some delrin but the cheaper option, not sure if Delrin AF


Borg Motorsports:

https://www.borgmotorsports.com/coll...=4642938748962

950USD

Mid-price kit, seems really high quality and I've heard good things. Delrin AF. Seems backordered?


Quite pricey for some bushings!

Any other Delrin AF options, in fact I am only sure Borg Motorsport's kit is delrin AF, they also offer a non AF version which is cheaper but I wouldn't opt for that.

Whis9

a_ahmed

Do these have the rear shock mount too? I remember some people discussing the rear shock mount as not ideal in some options ...

eric1855

I'd recommend Borg. I have them on my car and they are an awesome product.

Grabbed_Crow_Mobe

+ 1

firebirdfan

Van Steel has been around the longest. Never seen them post up on here, or have much more presence than just the site. Lots of people have been using their stuff for years.

Borg showed up a few years ago when he started his STU C5 project. His unique offering is the offset delrin bushings. He has a LOT of good information on the design and installation of the bushings on his site. Very simple and easy to follow.

Ridetech showed up about the same time as Borg. The image on their site is old. They have metal sleeves now like everyone else. The initial release of the bushings had problems with cracking. Once they updated the design with the metal sleeves, it seemed to disappear.

FWIW, I'm planning on buying Borg Offset bushings at some point in the next year (need a clutch first). He's impressed me the most with the open discussion he's had with the forum about the design and engineering behind the bushings.

Sox-Fan

Don't forget Phoenix.

mattastick

+2

I put Lane's non-offset bushings in over the winter, and the car is much more confidence inspiring, and it's much easier to slide around now. No more stick/slip/slideways and unpredictable handling.

Mugen1516

+1 for Borg

0Rodney@ridetech

Our bushings are Delrin AF.

A few other features: We run thick wall inner sleeves for more clamping area on the aluminum cradle. The inner shape of our bushings allows for misalignment. This helps eliminate binding no matter where the eccentrics are set. The Delrin will eliminate the deflection you get with rubber, but you don't want to induce bind in the suspension. The trunnions for the front uppers (and rear uppers on C6 Z06 & ZR1) are made out of 4130 chromoly for strength.

Rodney

Quickshift_C5

Isn't the Borg Motorsport kit also PTFE? I always thought that was the case, but looking at their site, I don't see it specifically mentioned now. I had planned to go with them because of that.

Some good Delrin info if anyone is interested:
http://www.craftechind.com/acetal-de...ing-materials/

fatbillybob

Delrin AF is used when you want more slip between the delrin parts. There is telfon in it. The natural color is brown for DelrinAF. Plain homopolymer Delrin is most common and generically as acetyl. It comes black and natural color. I have used both kinds and in my hands acts the same in regards to wear and function for bushings. I have always lathe cut my own bushings from stock. It is simple but time consuming. You may want to ask manufacturers what they are making the bushings out of but I don't think it matters delrin or delrinAF. Some of my color info may be out of date so do your homework.

John B

I have installed all 3 in the last 2 months. Don't have long term data.

I can tell you Van Steel install done correctly takes considerably more time & requires a lathe.

Ride tech has a unique answer to out of line lower issue. inner diameter is cone or coke bottle shaped. Helps in theory. I question less contact surface.
Without coke bottle inner in rear on steel frame cars aligning put bushings in a bind.

Alignment should be performed at frame/upper mount with lowers in alignment to each other.

John B

Delrin Type IMO wouldn't matter much if fit correctly. I made custom white Delrin 20 years ago for a C4. It has seen over 100k miles. Tons of track with 12in wide slicks. Still tight today

Anybody who switched to Delrin is going to experience a huge improvement in car control regardless of what kit. 1st thing that should be changed in all C5s & c6s.

I put the Ridetech kit in a C6 RDSTR with a supercharger. Left the rubber lower shock mounts in place. I never change these in street driven cars. Suspension was otherwise stock.

It rides smooth. No noise. No jarring. So all the people afraid of bushings on the street have nothing to worry about. I can see bumps in corners being felt more so. Traveling straight down the road is a none issue.
Its changing shock mounts, binding poly, heavier shocks & springs that have given these a bad rap for street use.

The base suspension car with Delrin in it was transformed into a precision instrument. Unbelievable to owner & myself. I have suspected this & wanted to do only Delrin or bearings for years.

Borg Motorsports

Wow, thanks for all of the great feedback everyone! I can't tell you how happy it makes me that people are enjoying my products.

To answer some of the questions that have come up:

-Kits are currently back ordered only because I haven't finished the dog bones yet. AF steel frame kits will be in stock this weekend. Offset steel frame kits will be in a few days later. Look for aluminum frame kits to show up a week or two after that.
Back to the questions:

Delrin AF by definition has PTFE (aka Teflon) impregnated in it. Delrin AF is the brand name for the Teflon impregnated Delrin that DuPont developed for the Navy. The real Delrin AF (Delrin AF100) is 20% PTFE and is INSANELY expensive. I think all of the automotive aftermarket uses Delrin AF blend which is about 13% PTFE and, while still expensive, is much better priced than the certified naval grade stuff. That's what we use in the premium and offset kits. Straight from DuPont's Delrin reference article:
Reference Source

Let me outline some of the differences in Delrin/acetal that people overlook (but have been touched on here). Something most people don't know is that there are two types of acetal resin: copolymer and homopolymer. When referred to as acetal or acetal resin, it usually means you are taking about the copolymer. The homopolymer is the original material developed and patented by DuPont as Delrin, and is roughly 15% stronger and stiffer than the copolymer. All of our bushings use the homopolymer.

The advantages of the homopolymer's mechanical properties come with some manufacturing trade-offs that need to be accounted for and do not occur with the copolymer. Generally, these show up as voids in the center of an extruded piece of material. I think in the sizes we use, I have only had to scrap about 1-1.5 ft of material because of these issues over the three years we've been making these kits.

There's nothing wrong with using the copolymer, it just isn't as strong or as stiff; two characteristcs I want in my bushings, so that's why we use the homopolymer materials. It's more expensive, but to me it's worth it to use the correct material.

All of our bushing kits use homopolymer material. The standard kit uses regular Delrin (no Teflon) so they are not technically self-lubricating, but this reduces the price substantially. I use black Delrin, but mechanically, the white and black are the same. I believe other colors are available, but likely at added cost. White Delrin is generally considered food-grade, but I'm not sure what they have done to achieve that rating.

The premium and offset kits both use the homopolymer impregnated with 13% PTFE fiber (another difference in material). PTFE fiber results in better mechanical properties (toughness, coefficient of friction, etc.) at the expense of not being friendly to injection molded processes. The other option is powder PTFE impregnated Delrin, which sacrifices mechanical properties for better manufacturability (i.e. high-speed injection molding). I chose to use the fiber impregnated version because it gives the best quality product and that's what I set out to do when I started Borg Motorsports. I'd rather have a worse margin on the product, but be creating and selling something of the utmost quality than have something I can pump out in high volume, but might not last as long or provide the absolute best performance possible.

Hope all that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Sorry for the long answer. I did my master's degree on the mechanics of materials and material property influences on vehicle suspensions, so I geek out on this stuff.

a_ahmed

I always hated polyurethane, it gave an artificial feel of tightness, but then it was crashing, squeeking and jarring like hell... with constant binding issues. So I never use poly in anything anymore.. other than engine mounts

I was curious about two things you mentioned, what did you mean by Ridetech's unique solution in the LCA? And what about the shock mount, I've heard people mention that the shock mount shouldn't be something like delrin or poly for articulation reasons? Am I correct or wrong?

In theory a spherical in there should allow a tight solid connection with articulation and should just make the shocks work better... but what about delrin AF? Either way gonna be better than crappy stock rubber...

Borg Motorsports

The rear shock bushing requires multi-axis rotation and therefore isn't accommodating of Delrin. You either need something with a large amount of flex (poly/rubber) or a spherical. For the record, I run sphericals on my personal car because the rules allow it.

Borg Motorsports

The standard kit is not, however the premuim and offset kits are.

a_ahmed

Ah I thought so... so in that case the kits including yours don't include a shock mount bushing, but a spherical would be ideal. I am guessing you don't produce the spherical shock mount but bought it or machined one for your car.

a_ahmed

It looks like the only option is from aFE:

https://afepower.com/afe-power-460-4...t#applications

It seems like some of these guys that ran pfadt setup have run em for 4+ years with no noise, issues, etc... except improved shock precision.

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f5/pf...arings-119601/