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Fed up with crap brakes. Need tips for complete overhaul

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:14 AM
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NoradIV
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Default Fed up with crap brakes. Need tips for complete overhaul

Hello Guys,

I have started lapping once a week (2x20 minutes sessions every monday) plus a couple track days in the weekend. I took a class early this season to help me start in the right direction.

I have upgraded my pads from stock to hawk HP+, then to PFC11. Went from Gulf RS1000 fluid, then to Castrol SRF and I have installed braided steel brake lines. Does not matter, fluid still boil after half a session and pedal get soft. When I bleed the brakes, I see a bubble about an inch long in my bleed tube.

About a month after I started (Hawk/Gulf), and much worse for the last 6 weeks (PFC/Gulf), I have not been able to get reliable brakes; bad case of fade and mad fluid boiling. After every monday, I have to get the car on stands and bleed the brakes.

I know I should ease on the brakes, but I find it still difficult to gauge where the thermal limit is, I have improved to the point where I can get somewhat good brakes for a full session and I can feel when my brakes are starting to fade, but I would rather just improve brake performance at this point.

I have read the excellent Zenak's post, and he has made quite a good set of suggestions.

At this point, I am looking to do a complete brake overhaul projet this winter.

My car is a C5 Z06 2002 with PFC11 brake pads, steel lines and the previous owner thought it was a good idea to put a set of 19"x9.5/20"x10.5 staggered Cray wheels. I have a DRM/Ron Davis radiator with EoC (I should have gotten a standalone EoC) and the transmission/diff cooling combo. I love this car too much to make a dedicated track car for now. I use it on fridays and in the weekends.

So far, I am looking to do the following things:

1. Get actual cooling there with this kit and protect the boots with this kit
2. Get a set of titanium brake spacer to get heat out of the fluid
3. Find a way to get some more bias in the rear to reduce the stress in the front
4. Rebuild calipers with stainless steel pistons OR stop wasting money on the factory brakes and try to find a BBK that is within a reasonnable budget.

I'm I missing something? Something else to add?
Also, any "while I am there" items I should do?

Thanks!

Last edited by NoradIV; 07-18-2018 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:52 AM
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Stop wasting money on stock brakes. You have already proved that you are at a level that exceeds what a stock system could do. (It was my second track day at Pocono with my Vette that pushed me to a BBK.) The spindle ducts are a good idea but you are going to need a BBK. Try the front only first until you find you are going through rear pads at a stupid rate. You cannot adjust bias on a 2002 C5 because the ABS controls bias. You can control bias by using a different pad compound in the rear. Check the C5 parts for sale section, Someone has a Brembo kit (front and rear) for $2500.00
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:50 AM
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Hes down to $2200great deal if you ask me.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...brake-kit.html
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:58 AM
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Though I agree that in the long run at least the front brakes have to go, there are a bunch of cheap options(a lot cheaper then trans/diff coolers) that actually will save you money in the long run if you figure the pad savings.

I am confused how you are boiling srf in 20 minutes. I broke a number of c5z front rotors and never had any fluid boiling issues. Mind you hp+ aren't a track pad. Are you sure its a fluid issue and not some sort of pad gas out issue you are feeling? In my experience srf is never the weak link, and in a c5z with 12.8" rotors the weak link should always be the rotor. If you aren't cracking rotors every 8-10 sessions you shouldn't have any chance to be boiling fluid unless something is dragging or you have the front ducts blocked or something odd or out of the ordinary, on a c5z. As the front rotors never last more then 12-15 sessions once you get fast, but with any reasonable fluid you can pop rotors at that rate without having any fluid boil issues, much less srf that is in general totally immune to any problems ever in my experience.

I think you should call carbotech and have them match a pad in the front to your tire. They seem to go less overboard then some of the vendors in their recomendations, which imo is more senseable then having too much pad, which i don't really enjoy driving.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mika401 View Post
Hes down to $2200great deal if you ask me.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...brake-kit.html
Screw that Wilwood crap. I've never had anything but problems on enduro cars we have run with them. Here's the link for the Brembo's for $2500..... I'd take those any day over Wilwood.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-corvette.html
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:28 AM
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If you are using this as dual purpose car, you can't go wrong with the Essex T1 kit. They fit under C5Z 17s or 18s and you can run a stock rotor for street use. If you can find a set used you should be able to resell them with little to no depreciation.

The 19s are great for rotor clearance but I have no idea what they clear in terms of caliper depth.

Last edited by 93Polo; 07-18-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:25 AM
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TPS has this stoptech 60/40 kit for a great price:

http://www.tpsmotorsports.com/corvet...-corvette.html

I gather that the stock rears are adequate but I wanted top-loading calipers all around for easier pad changes, and the price was right. Still haven't has them on track due to clutch issues, but that should all be fixed in a couple weeks.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:06 PM
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To the OP,

As noted by others, you're going down a time-consuming and costly path by trying to make the OEM brakes work for your needs. Even if you upgrade and modify them, you're still going to be throwing spares, money, and time into them on a consistent basis. Following your 'crap brakes' statement...you'll essentially be polishing the proverbial turd. If you want to save yourself a lot of frustration, missed sessions, and headaches, buy the best front brake system you can afford. If budget is an issue, focus on the fronts.

With one of our Essex Designed AP Racing systems you can skip the ducts, cooling solutions, constant bleeds and rebuilds, etc. You don't need any of that stuff. You install them and essentially forget about them.

You can see all of the systems we offer for the C5Z in the link below. We have a wide range of sizes, budgets, and options. I owned and tracked a C5Z for numerous years, and am intimately familiar with the platform. We can provide guidance on which of these systems is the correct choice for your needs. Your goal should be to do the job once properly and be done with it for good.

https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...t/Corvette/All

You can see a number of videos related to our Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kits on our YouTube page:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-n...IT3tzOQ/videos

Finally, tons of customer feedback on our blog:

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

Ultimately, if you're tracking your Z you're going to spend a considerable sum of money on brakes. These are heavy, fast cars with big sticky tires, and there's no way around it. You can either spend the money up-front and enjoy your time at the track without brake issues, or you can spend the same amount over the next few years incrementally trying to make the OEM brakes something that they're not, all while cursing and bleeding along the way. I'm sure others will chime in to confirm this line of reasoning!

Also of note, having flawless brakes will improve your lap times, consistency, and confidence behind the wheel more than just about any other mod you'll do to the car. Our customers tell us this over, and over, and over again.

Feel free to shoot me a PM, [email protected], or call with any questions related to our products. Thanks, and good luck!

Last edited by [email protected]; 07-18-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
To the OP,

As noted by others, you're going down a time-consuming and costly path by trying to make the OEM brakes work for your needs. Even if you upgrade and modify them, you're still going to be throwing spares, money, and time into them on a consistent basis. Following your 'crap brakes' statement...you'll essentially be polishing the proverbial turd. If you want to save yourself a lot of frustration, missed sessions, and headaches, buy the best front brake system you can afford. If budget is an issue, focus on the fronts.

With one of our Essex Designed AP Racing systems you can skip the ducts, cooling solutions, constant bleeds and rebuilds, etc. You don't need any of that stuff. You install them and essentially forget about them.

You can see all of the systems we offer for the C5Z in the link below. We have a wide range of sizes, budgets, and options. I owned and tracked a C5Z for numerous years, and am intimately familiar with the platform. We can provide guidance on which of these systems is the correct choice for your needs. Your goal should be to do the job once properly and be done with it for good.

https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...t/Corvette/All

You can see a number of videos related to our Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kits on our YouTube page:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-n...IT3tzOQ/videos

Finally, tons of customer feedback on our blog:

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

Ultimately, if you're tracking your Z you're going to spend a considerable sum of money on brakes. These are heavy, fast cars with big sticky tires, and there's no way around it. You can either spend the money up-front and enjoy your time at the track without brake issues, or you can spend the same amount over the next few years incrementally trying to make the OEM brakes something that they're not, all while cursing and bleeding along the way. I'm sure others will chime in to confirm this line of reasoning!

Also of note, having flawless brakes will improve your lap times, consistency, and confidence behind the wheel more than just about any other mod you'll do to the car. Our customers tell us this over, and over, and over again.

Feel free to shoot me a PM, [email protected], or call with any questions related to our products. Thanks, and good luck!
I'll agree with this. Jeff has the best deal in town. I currently run Stoptech BBK, but IF I was doing it today, I would run his AP brakes.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:52 PM
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What tires are you using on those 19" rims? Going with a larger radius overall for the wheel/tire combo is also putting more stress on the brakes since you are losing leverage. I tracked my 2000 hardtop and 2003 Z06. After the first track day in my 2000 I built a bigger brake system, that I later used on the Z06. Not only are the stock brakes prone to overheating they also taper the pads badly in my experience. I went with a 13.4" rotor up front and ran higher friction pads in the rear to keep in balanced.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:07 PM
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With your kind of usage I think something isn't right if you're boiling SRF after just 10-20 minutes and getting that much air in the lines (or any air for that matter). I would start by checking all of your connections from the master cylinder on back. You indicated that stainless lines were installed. Were new crush washers used during that install? Fittings tight? Any bleeder screws stripped or loose? The brake lines coming from master cylinder came with insulation on them originally where they get close to the exhaust manifold/headers - any chance that's missing? Just sort of thinking (typing?) out loud here...

Anyway, I'm torn here with advice because I've been down your road (although I didn't have the specific problems that you describe). On the one hand I think that you have something else going on that may or may not be corrected by throwing a BBK at it. On the other hand I feel strongly that, if everything else is functioning properly, the BBK is ultimately going to be the right answer unless you're just dabbling or on a really restricted budget (both of which are completely reasonable constraints). On my C5Z I've been through the original calipers, been through C6 calipers (using the DRM SS pistons in both cases), been through several sets of front rotors, tried a few different pad compounds, and finally just said "screw it!" and installed an Essex/AP BBK. Now, mind you, I'm just an HPDE guy on street tires and there are much more competent drivers on this forum that have likely made due with stock or close to stock brake hardware for various reasons so I know there are ways to make it work. For me, though, the BBK was money well spent. I contacted Jeff at Essex early on and he told me this would happen, but I farted around with other things first and should have just listened. My 2 cents is if you plan on doing more track days in the future, you're okay with spending the money, and you want to do this once and do it right then just upgrade to a quality BBK, up front at least. Then pick the appropriate pads and spend more of your time learning and enjoying the driving and less time worrying about brakes. FWIW, I've been using the Quantum spindle ducts that you linked since the beginning.

With regards to cooling. I'm still running the DRM/Ron Davis EOC setup and it's been working well for me. If I had it to do over again I might well go with a stand alone cooler and radiator, but I really can't complain about this combo setup. I went this way originally because it was supposed to be a dual-purpose car and here in the PNW temps rarely go much above 90F so it seemed like a wise choice. Since then I've been on track on some of those, by our standards, hot and humid days. I'm pretty conservative and with stock LS6 power levels and, again, far from a racer, have seen oil temps creep into the low 270s, but it usually stabilizes there. I usually do one oil analysis per year and they always look good so I'm comfortable with my approach.




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Old 07-18-2018, 08:26 PM
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Giving all the issues you're having and your tracking the car regularly stop wasting your time/$$ and call Essex to determine which kit is right for you.

I only autocross and I went with the AP Racing Sprint kit up front. It's a night and day difference. My confidence is elevated and no more fading brakes, bleeding brakes, swapping pads or replacing rotors.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NoradIV View Post
So far, I am looking to do the following things:

1. Get actual cooling there with this kit and protect the boots with this kit
2. Get a set of titanium brake spacer to get heat out of the fluid
3. Find a way to get some more bias in the rear to reduce the stress in the front
4. Rebuild calipers with stainless steel pistons OR stop wasting money on the factory brakes and try to find a BBK that is within a reasonnable budget.

I'm I missing something? Something else to add?
Also, any "while I am there" items I should do?

Thanks!
1. Cooling will help a lot. However, you will start cracking brake rotors. When I had my C5s I got about two days out of a stock rotor.
2. The titanium spacers can help but they can also cause issues if the brakes get hung up because they are sticking in the caliper (had that happen)
3. Your car has DRP and the bias is determined by the ABS system. Theoretically, the more grip you have in the rear the more braking force will be moved there.
4. Don't bother rebuilding the calipers go with a BBK from a name brand. I have used Wilwood brakes on my C5s and they worked well. If you order Wilwood make sure you order the slotted rotors instead of the drilled rotors that are shown in their adds. Todd at TCE can help with choosing Wilwood products. One of those Wilwood kits came from LG Motorsports and adapted the Wilwood Wide SL6 to fit under the stock C5Z front wheels while using the stock brake rotors. That kit called the G Stop works very well but is limited to stock size rotors that tend to crack often but you do get a lot of pad life from the very thick pads. If you want to spend more money you can look at StopTech or Essex AP Racing kits (talk to Jeff about his very good offerings).

On a side note I am not sure why you aren't happy with the DRM/Ron Davis Radiator. I had one that installed on both of my C5s. On the C5Z it dropped coolant temps to 200 degrees (with a stock thermostat) and oil temps to 230 degrees and that was running in high 80s temps. The biggest problem I had is it cooled too well and on days where the temps didn't get out of the 40s it was very hard to get oil temperature over 150 degrees. That radiator cools. If you are having trouble with it cooling then you need to look at the top front of your AC Condenser to see if the air flow is blocked by debris. Also need to make sure the foam seals between the AC Condenser sides and the radiator duct are sealing. If not air will bypass the radiators and go under the hood through the side of the duct. The center air dam is critical to cooling on a C5. It is spring loaded so it will go over road obstacles but on the track it will start to bend backwards at triple digit speeds. The fix is to take some duct tape and loop it around the support bar behind the air dam and then continue over the top of the air dam and down its face a couple of inches. Do three strips like this one on each end and one in the middle. That will keep the air dam from deflecting. I owned my C5s for 6 years each and only had to replace the duct tape on each one once.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 07-19-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:16 AM
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NoradIV
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Ok, giant response thread here.

Originally Posted by Socko View Post
Though I agree that in the long run at least the front brakes have to go, there are a bunch of cheap options(a lot cheaper then trans/diff coolers) that actually will save you money in the long run if you figure the pad savings.

I am confused how you are boiling srf in 20 minutes. I broke a number of c5z front rotors and never had any fluid boiling issues. Mind you hp+ aren't a track pad. Are you sure its a fluid issue and not some sort of pad gas out issue you are feeling? In my experience srf is never the weak link, and in a c5z with 12.8" rotors the weak link should always be the rotor. If you aren't cracking rotors every 8-10 sessions you shouldn't have any chance to be boiling fluid unless something is dragging or you have the front ducts blocked or something odd or out of the ordinary, on a c5z. As the front rotors never last more then 12-15 sessions once you get fast, but with any reasonable fluid you can pop rotors at that rate without having any fluid boil issues, much less srf that is in general totally immune to any problems ever in my experience.

I think you should call carbotech and have them match a pad in the front to your tire. They seem to go less overboard then some of the vendors in their recomendations, which imo is more senseable then having too much pad, which i don't really enjoy driving.
I just completely cracked a disk after 8 sessions. The crack goes all the way through. The track I lap to is quite small, so not a lot of speed and a lot of brakes. I suspect they do not have time to cool off. Also, I am no longer on HP+, I am on PFC11. I know it is fluid because as soon as I bleed them, everything is back to normal. The fluid is the problem because when I go back home after the day, the pedal feel is garbage.

Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
TPS has this stoptech 60/40 kit for a great price:

http://www.tpsmotorsports.com/corvet...-corvette.html

I gather that the stock rears are adequate but I wanted top-loading calipers all around for easier pad changes, and the price was right. Still haven't has them on track due to clutch issues, but that should all be fixed in a couple weeks.
I'd like to focus on the front first, specially since I have no problem with the rear for now.

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
To the OP,

As noted by others, you're going down a time-consuming and costly path by trying to make the OEM brakes work for your needs. Even if you upgrade and modify them, you're still going to be throwing spares, money, and time into them on a consistent basis. Following your 'crap brakes' statement...you'll essentially be polishing the proverbial turd. If you want to save yourself a lot of frustration, missed sessions, and headaches, buy the best front brake system you can afford. If budget is an issue, focus on the fronts.

With one of our Essex Designed AP Racing systems you can skip the ducts, cooling solutions, constant bleeds and rebuilds, etc. You don't need any of that stuff. You install them and essentially forget about them.

You can see all of the systems we offer for the C5Z in the link below. We have a wide range of sizes, budgets, and options. I owned and tracked a C5Z for numerous years, and am intimately familiar with the platform. We can provide guidance on which of these systems is the correct choice for your needs. Your goal should be to do the job once properly and be done with it for good.

https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...t/Corvette/All

You can see a number of videos related to our Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kits on our YouTube page:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-n...IT3tzOQ/videos

Finally, tons of customer feedback on our blog:

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

Ultimately, if you're tracking your Z you're going to spend a considerable sum of money on brakes. These are heavy, fast cars with big sticky tires, and there's no way around it. You can either spend the money up-front and enjoy your time at the track without brake issues, or you can spend the same amount over the next few years incrementally trying to make the OEM brakes something that they're not, all while cursing and bleeding along the way. I'm sure others will chime in to confirm this line of reasoning!

Also of note, having flawless brakes will improve your lap times, consistency, and confidence behind the wheel more than just about any other mod you'll do to the car. Our customers tell us this over, and over, and over again.

Feel free to shoot me a PM, [email protected], or call with any questions related to our products. Thanks, and good luck!
I'll take a look at your products later this year. The reason why I thought of staying on stock brakes is because everyone said the C5 is more than a car for newbies and I should focus on driving before upgrades. I feel I have reached a level where I am good enough to benefit from this upgrade, but I have been wrong before and listening to others who has the experience is a good way to learn. Since I started earlier this season, I have picked up about 30% more speed in the corners. Now a lap takes me 1:00.2, where I eyeball 1.10 when I started.

How difficult is your kit to install? I can switch parts, but I have no tools or experience with custom fabrication. Will your stuff bolt to existing holes?

Originally Posted by rgregory View Post
What tires are you using on those 19" rims? Going with a larger radius overall for the wheel/tire combo is also putting more stress on the brakes since you are losing leverage. I tracked my 2000 hardtop and 2003 Z06. After the first track day in my 2000 I built a bigger brake system, that I later used on the Z06. Not only are the stock brakes prone to overheating they also taper the pads badly in my experience. I went with a 13.4" rotor up front and ran higher friction pads in the rear to keep in balanced.
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, 265/30/19 on the front, 295/25/20 on the rear. I am seriously impressed by these street tires. I plan to move to 18"x10.5 set when I can find rims that are below a million dollars (I live in canada, so buying used stuff from this forum is not that simple). That is if I can affoard it after the BBK, which will go in spring.

Originally Posted by Fulton 1 View Post
With your kind of usage I think something isn't right if you're boiling SRF after just 10-20 minutes and getting that much air in the lines (or any air for that matter). I would start by checking all of your connections from the master cylinder on back. You indicated that stainless lines were installed. Were new crush washers used during that install? Fittings tight? Any bleeder screws stripped or loose? The brake lines coming from master cylinder came with insulation on them originally where they get close to the exhaust manifold/headers - any chance that's missing? Just sort of thinking (typing?) out loud here...

Anyway, I'm torn here with advice because I've been down your road (although I didn't have the specific problems that you describe). On the one hand I think that you have something else going on that may or may not be corrected by throwing a BBK at it. On the other hand I feel strongly that, if everything else is functioning properly, the BBK is ultimately going to be the right answer unless you're just dabbling or on a really restricted budget (both of which are completely reasonable constraints). On my C5Z I've been through the original calipers, been through C6 calipers (using the DRM SS pistons in both cases), been through several sets of front rotors, tried a few different pad compounds, and finally just said "screw it!" and installed an Essex/AP BBK. Now, mind you, I'm just an HPDE guy on street tires and there are much more competent drivers on this forum that have likely made due with stock or close to stock brake hardware for various reasons so I know there are ways to make it work. For me, though, the BBK was money well spent. I contacted Jeff at Essex early on and he told me this would happen, but I farted around with other things first and should have just listened. My 2 cents is if you plan on doing more track days in the future, you're okay with spending the money, and you want to do this once and do it right then just upgrade to a quality BBK, up front at least. Then pick the appropriate pads and spend more of your time learning and enjoying the driving and less time worrying about brakes. FWIW, I've been using the Quantum spindle ducts that you linked since the beginning.

With regards to cooling. I'm still running the DRM/Ron Davis EOC setup and it's been working well for me. If I had it to do over again I might well go with a stand alone cooler and radiator, but I really can't complain about this combo setup. I went this way originally because it was supposed to be a dual-purpose car and here in the PNW temps rarely go much above 90F so it seemed like a wise choice. Since then I've been on track on some of those, by our standards, hot and humid days. I'm pretty conservative and with stock LS6 power levels and, again, far from a racer, have seen oil temps creep into the low 270s, but it usually stabilizes there. I usually do one oil analysis per year and they always look good so I'm comfortable with my approach.
Following this, and many other suggestion, I will just keep the factory stuff until I can affoard a BBK, which I will on tax return in spring. I intend to make this car a dedicated racecar in the long run, but I am not there yet, and I enjow this car too much to take it out of the street and drive it only on racing events.

About the Ron Davis unit, I believe I read somewhere it was good "up to 800 hp", which is total bullshit. I was reaching 270F on oil temp monday at the track at 96 degrees ambient. It was stable at 270F, but I was hoping to stay much below that for durability. I should have gone for two standalone units.

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
1. Cooling will help a lot. However, you will start cracking brake rotors. When I had my C5s I got about two days out of a stock rotor.
2. The titanium spacers can help but they can also cause issues if the brakes get hung up because they are sticking in the caliper (had that happen)
3. Your car has DRP and the bias is determined by the ABS system. Theoretically, the more grip you have in the rear the more braking force will be moved there.
4. Don't bother rebuilding the calipers go with a BBK from a name brand. I have used Wilwood brakes on my C5s and they worked well. If you order Wilwood make sure you order the slotted rotors instead of the drilled rotors that are shown in their adds. Todd at TCE can help with choosing Wilwood products. One of those Wilwood kits came from LG Motorsports and adapted the Wilwood Wide SL6 to fit under the stock C5Z front wheels while using the stock brake rotors. That c6oIf you want to spend more money you can look at StopTech or Essex AP Racing kits (talk to Jeff about his very good offerings).

On a side note I am not sure why you aren't happy with the DRM/Ron Davis Radiator. I had one that installed on both of my C5s. On the C5Z it dropped coolant temps to 200 degrees (with a stock thermostat) and oil temps to 230 degrees and that was running in high 80s temps. The biggest problem I had is it cooled too well and on days where the temps didn't get out of the 40s it was very hard to get oil temperature over 150 degrees. That radiator cools. If you are having trouble with it cooling then you need to look at the top front of your AC Condenser to see if the air flow is blocked by debris. Also need to make sure the foam seals between the AC Condenser sides and the radiator duct are sealing. If not air will bypass the radiators and go under the hood through the side of the duct. The center air dam is critical to cooling on a C5. It is spring loaded so it will go over road obstacles but on the track it will start to bend backwards at triple digit speeds. The fix is to take some duct tape and loop it around the support bar behind the air dam and then continue over the top of the air dam and down its face a couple of inches. Do three strips like this one on each end and one in the middle. That will keep the air dam from deflecting. I owned my C5s for 6 years each and only had to replace the duct tape on each one once.

Bill
Same answer than previous for the oil, and water temp was reaching 240. Its better than factory (for oil) which I had to ease off the pedal after about 10 minutes, where now everything stabilize at 240/270, but it is still way too hot in my opinion. The car will reach 190 no problem on the street. I am looking for other solutions to keep the bay cooler (hood vents, insulation tape the manifold until I get headers, remove some decorative plastics on top of the engine, etc). Mind you, ambient is between 75 and 100 these days.

I went with this VERY expensive, "top of the line" radiator because I wanted to buy the right thing once and never look back. Look like when I add some more power to this engine, I will have to buy another radiator. Usually, radiators cost around 500$ in canada. This one cost me 1850$ when it reached my door, and I find the fact that I will need to upgrade again eventually completely unacceptable at this price point.

Would I recommend this product to a friend? No, I do not consider this radiator to have a good value, specially given the fact that I had no water temp issues with the stock radiator. I bought this one because I had oil temp issues. Had I gone for a standalone EoC, I would have had the same result for about 1/4 of the price. I would have probably had a water temp problem eventually, but then, dewitt makes a radiator much cheaper than the Ron Davis.

In other words, I was expecting more than "barely enough" at this price point.

Last edited by NoradIV; 07-19-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:06 AM
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The Essex T1 kit bolts on, very easy install
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 93Polo View Post
The Essex T1 kit bolts on, very easy install
Wow, that is unlikely to ever be in my pricerange. 7k$+us sales taxes when it reaches my door.

I will have to look for an alternative.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NoradIV View Post
Wow, that is unlikely to ever be in my pricerange. 7k$+us sales taxes when it reaches my door.

I will have to look for an alternative.
Our Front Sprint Kit is $2599, and the rear kit is the same. Our front-only Sprint Kit has won many SCCA and NASA races and championships.

Front=
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-C5vette

Rear=
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-c5vette

Again though, choosing one of our larger front-only setups vs. the Sprint four wheel system depends on your car and goals. In some cases it would make sense to go one way, and in some cases the other. We're happy to help you make that decision. Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:28 AM
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I'll take a look at your products later this year. The reason why I thought of staying on stock brakes is because everyone said the C5 is more than a car for newbies and I should focus on driving before upgrades. I feel I have reached a level where I am good enough to benefit from this upgrade, but I have been wrong before and listening to others who has the experience is a good way to learn. Since I started earlier this season, I have picked up about 30% more speed in the corners. Now a lap takes me 1:00.2, where I eyeball 1.10 when I started.

How difficult is your kit to install? I can switch parts, but I have no tools or experience with custom fabrication. Will your stuff bolt to existing holes?
Thanks. The problem is, that not all upgrades are created equal. What these people are suggesting is that you not make the car more difficult to drive. A great example would be that R compound tires tend to break away with less warning vs. street tires. Adding aero can have a similarly complicating effect. Deferring mods that enhance the car's track reliability won't help you achieve much however. You'll just burn things down faster. If you're already cracking discs and fading fluid in a few sessions, you've proven that you are ready for a solid upgrade. Otherwise, I'd be less likely to recommend skipping all of the 'in-between' steps towards a big brake kit.

All of our systems bolt on with no modifications. You can see one of our complete install manuals in the link below. They are quite thorough. Thanks again.
https://www.essexparts.com/storage/w...5-6_CP8350.pdf
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Our Front Sprint Kit is $2599, and the rear kit is the same. Our front-only Sprint Kit has won many SCCA and NASA races and championships.

Front=
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-C5vette

Rear=
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...cp8350-c5vette

Again though, choosing one of our larger front-only setups vs. the Sprint four wheel system depends on your car and goals. In some cases it would make sense to go one way, and in some cases the other. We're happy to help you make that decision. Thanks!
My idea was that I am having a hard time getting the heat out of the disks. A larger disk spread the energy on a larger surface, resulting to a lower temperature, and will also have a better dissipation.

The front sprint kit state you can keep the factory disks, meaning you have 0 extra heat dissipation.

Aside of more pistons, which I do not need, what is the gain of that kit?

(Sorry, I do not mean to sound like an *******, just trying to understand the benefit of that kit.)

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Old 07-19-2018, 11:43 AM
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If you have a radial caliper and stock disks you can use the 12.8" c5 disk, the 13.4" c6z51 disk, or the 14" c6z disk. optimally what you want is a 13.4/14" option as its easier to build the bracket that way and you likely will have long enough studs for the .3" spacer.

The convienience of staying on a stock rotor offset and clearing the 17" c5z wheelwith a 13.4" rotor and 14" rotors with a 18" c5z wheel and the fact they work fine with the sl4/sl6/8350, they are all the same caliper with a 20mm pad, means anything but staying on the standard offset makes very little sense. You can buy some c6z hatted 14" rotors for $500 each if you want to optimize or use $90 c6z blanks that are 5lbs more then the c5 blanks and have more or less the same hat, so its 5 lbs more of useful thermal mass.

The sl6 kits were under 1600 at lg a few years ago, kns made one that might have been even cheaper.

Last edited by Socko; 07-19-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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