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Yes of course we all want to win, that is part of the reason to race, among many others (competitiveness, camaraderie, simple enjoyment etc). Not sure about other regions but NASA Northeast TTU is, in part, where the guys go that don't feel like weighing or dyno'ing their car - making it an easy class to join and have fun without dyno certs or weights. So you end up with all sorts of power levels, different manufacturers, different weight levels. Additionally, because it usually ends up being the largest TT class, the racers from ST2 also join it to to shake their car down, scrub their Hoosiers and try to win tires. Although it sounds like a cluster-%&#, it actually ends up being a really fun, enjoyable class. Everyone knows everyone else, barriers to entry are low and the class is surprisingly competitive. I won multiple times last year in TTU in my C6Z, including two 1st place finishes at Watkins Glen and a 3rd place finish at NJMP. My car is technically classed for TT1 (weighed and dyno certified as such), but I run TTU for more cars, a chance to win tires and because many of my friends are in it as well and most of all I am there to have fun. There is nothing wrong at all about running TTU for fun, competition, the chance to win some tires and to race your time against your friends in a low stress, yet race environment. It's actually a good way to get started.
And if someone shows up in a prototype or pure race car and runs TTU, then great! I love to be on track with these cars. They are usually under-driven or over-driven anyhow and seem to break rather quickly. Not many make the second day. But either way they don't bother me at all. The more the merrier. As much as I want to win and want a reasonable shot at it, I'm not racing for a manufacturer title and so I'm not going to stress over every little thing. It ruins the enjoyment.
If Sean wants to start racing, a good place to start is for him to get his Time Trial license and run some events in TTU, without the worry over classing and such. As he gets more competitive (and I suspect he will), he can class his car as he desires. It is not a difficult task in NASA (unlike other sanctioning bodies).
You can always class up, you can't class down if your car is not prepped for it. The NE region is not very big. There are more people who take it more seriously at the tracks Sean frequents (Summit, VIR) like I said. That does not.mean its not fun because you take it seriously. But other than tires, he might as well stay in DE. You say your car is a TT1 car, so while you disagree with me in wording, your actions are exactly what I'm saying.
Not to mention a TTU Corvette will likely be nonstop wrenching. Unless you work on that stuff yourself or carry a mechanic around with you, it's annoying.
Like I said, it's my opinion. He can decide what to do with it.
You can always class up, you can't class down if your car is not prepped for it. The NE region is not very big. There are more people who take it more seriously at the tracks Sean frequents (Summit, VIR) like I said. That does not.mean its not fun because you take it seriously. But other than tires, he might as well stay in DE. You say your car is a TT1 car, so while you disagree with me in wording, your actions are exactly what I'm saying.
Not to mention a TTU Corvette will likely be nonstop wrenching. Unless you work on that stuff yourself or carry a mechanic around with you, it's annoying.
Like I said, it's my opinion. He can decide what to do with it.
I say it's a TT1 car because in fact it is a TT1 car (dyno'd, weighed, classed and certified as such with NASA), which is also run in TTU in TT1 trim (and wins - see below). My only point was to provide a different perspective, which is that TTU is a viable class and very enjoyable in the Northeast. And this doesn't mean the car needs to be built to compete with IMSA prototypes to win (if that is your goal) - as I have proven. The decision regarding class selection is far more paramount in w2w than it is for casual TT racers. If his goal is to be very serious about this and compete in his first year at Nationals in a Time Trial class then certainly what you say matters. But if it is to simply introduce himself to timed racing, learn the car and have fun with his friends without alot of stress then TTU is as good as any other class (but with more participation in certain regions due to the reasons I gave). There is little reason to agonize over class selection in Time Trials for a new racer. There are more important things to worry over and other things to enjoy.
Here are actual results this year of a TT1 car (my car) winning in TTU.
You can always class up, you can't class down if your car is not prepped for it. The NE region is not very big. There are more people who take it more seriously at the tracks Sean frequents (Summit, VIR) like I said. That does not.mean its not fun because you take it seriously. But other than tires, he might as well stay in DE. You say your car is a TT1 car, so while you disagree with me in wording, your actions are exactly what I'm saying.
Not to mention a TTU Corvette will likely be nonstop wrenching. Unless you work on that stuff yourself or carry a mechanic around with you, it's annoying.
Like I said, it's my opinion. He can decide what to do with it.
Do you still have the 911? I thought Gil Smith held the record at VIR Full for TT1 but I was wrong. It's you isn't it? WOW that's flying!! I don't see any Prototypes on the current LR list? You are currently second quick overall by the looks of it?
I just drive for fun myself and hang out with my friends. I am not sure about Sean but I think he does too although he may get more serious about it? I think his choice of a caged, Katech 427 powered C7GS making around 600 rwhp is a great one and it should slip into NASA TT1 and prove to be a fun, fast and competitive car.
Agonize? He will likely want to dyno whatever engine he builds regardless. All you need is a dyno and weight. It's not like it's a huge deal. Sean is a competitor, you can see it in his driving and his posts. Once he gets a taste of TT the urge to win will only get stronger. He's not going to be content toiling around well behind the leaders.
Brian Faessler has a 800 hp TTU Mustang that ran 1:48 at Watkins at Nationals. They have Fords backing. And that's just a GT car with partial front tube frame. Rick Macpherson a 900-1000 hp GTR that did 1:51. That's what you encounter in TTU in the Southeast, Great Lakes and Mid-Atlantic on a regular basis. I think Gil Smith, who he would encounter at any VIR TT ran 1:57 at Watkins his first time there and does 1:54's at VIR.
If you are saying just build a car and let the chips fall where they may, that's one thing, but he was talking about building a car to be competitive in TTU. I'm just letting him know what that really means.
I went through some of the same maturations trying to decide where I would have the most fun. I went from HPDEs in a C6Z to TT in an old NASA Spec Focus that I bought from Jason (Katech) to a TT1 ACR. The Focus was a blast - cheap to operate but not fast. The Viper eats tires at an enormous rate and it is a real hassle to change tires, ride height, aero settings, and alignment for every track day, then back to the street settings - and I really hate to abuse it. I run with a Viper buddy in the Southwest and he holds several NASA TT1 track records, but he caught the bug and built a 9 liter track monster with all the right stuff. You can see from the cage construction photo below that it is no longer a "dual purpose" car - all TTU. LOL I finally decided to finish an old Corvette track car project for TTU realizing that I would not be able to compete with prototypes and the like, but I would be able to run hard and fast and not have to worry about weigh-ins, dyno pulls, or one-too-many modifications. The car is light and has a big motor moved way back, sophisticated "race car" suspension, big brakes, big tires, and a cage. No nannies, but does have wheel speed sensors and a Motec ECU. There will still be a big tire bill and expensive race gas costs, but I won't have to worry about tearing up a nice piece of automotive history --- "because race car".
I looked at Radicals as well and while the brake/tires/gas are cheaper the motor rebuilds and intervals are not. You're just writing a bigger check less frequently.
That may be true of the SR8, which is not reliable, but it is certainly not true of the SR3. The engine is as close to bulletproof as you can get, with noen of the problems the street cars, and particularly the Z06, are plagued with. SR3 goes a long way between rebuilds - it is a Hayabusa engine after all.
I strongly recommend you fly out to Spring Mountain and arrange for some lapping in an SR3. They are incredibly fun and challenging, much more interesting than trying to hotshoe a street car around the track. I think you would really like it. I sold my car as I was moving to Fla and uncertain what direction I would go ( I am very close to Sebring now), but I know the crowd out there and would be happy to arrange a drive for you. Good solid bunch of guys.
And prices are reasonable. Typical prices for a well maintained car with spares is 60s-70s. I sold mine for $69 and my buddy has an impeccable one with a tone of spares, pristine and maintained to the book, for $68. Can't beat that. PM me if you want.
Do you still have the 911? I thought Gil Smith held the record at VIR Full for TT1 but I was wrong. It's you isn't it? WOW that's flying!! I don't see any Prototypes on the current LR list? You are currently second quick overall by the looks of it?
I just drive for fun myself and hang out with my friends. I am not sure about Sean but I think he does too although he may get more serious about it? I think his choice of a caged, Katech 427 powered C7GS making around 600 rwhp is a great one and it should slip into NASA TT1 and prove to be a fun, fast and competitive car.
Yes, I still have it. Dan Raver runs regularly there. He has Mike Skeen co-driver with him often. I know the car has gone faster than Butch Hamlets time in that Nascar thing, but maybe not at TT, just in w2w or UTCC. Adam Romito and Brian Faessler I think have both run 1:48's. But Adam rarely runs TT. He has a Nascar too. Those engines are NASTY. 800 HP NA. Tube frame at 2400 lbs and massive aero.
OP: a lot of people suggesting lower powered, lighter cars here. You should really give it a whirl for a season. A well sorted track car will barely cost you anything in depreciation if you don't like it in a season. With how often you drive, I bet you'd save a lot of money you can put towards a C8 track car next year if you still want a heavy high HP car I'd really encourage you to try something in the moderate HP range (200-300) and sub 2700lbs. If you take me up on my offer, I'll even rent you my BRZ for a day (it's on the low end of the power spectrum though).
It's really a completely different feeling and level of enjoyment to drive a car 700-1000lbs lighter that is a dedicated track car, but also to drive a car with no nannies, that rotates properly, that doesn't understeer and you're not timid of (and, no offense, but you won't realize how timid you are of a 650-750hp car if you've never tracked lower hp cars). There's something to all these people suggesting cheaper, lighter, smaller less powerful cars.
Can we stop cluttering this thread telling the OP what he should do and let him get on building a badass C7?
I think that's been pretty well covered:
Spend a lot of money on an engine from a reputable engine builder
Spend a lot of money on coilovers, solid bushings, etc
Spend a lot of money on a big brake kit
Spend a lot of money on a big front splitter and a wing
Spend a lot of money with a reputable shop who can dial everything in/corner balance etc
Forged wheels and slicks
Can we stop cluttering this thread telling the OP what he should do and let him get on building a badass C7?
Speaking for myself, I have really enjoyed this thread and have read every post. I think the suggestions to consider a dedicated track car are valid. If I were to elevate my motorsport hobby beyond HPDE it would have to be with a lighter, cheaper operating car. I don't have the financial tolerance to "race" a C6 or C7 Corvette. The NASA NP01 can be purchased for about the same money as a new GS and it needs no further work or modifications to race. Owners say operating costs are very similar to Spec Miata while having a much higher performance envelope. If I go with a production car I will look hard the f86 platform or a Miata. I think the OP is committed to the C7 and that's great but I think everyone has been respectful in their suggestions.
Speaking for myself, I have really enjoyed this thread and have read every post. I think the suggestions to consider a dedicated track car are valid. If I were to elevate my motorsport hobby beyond HPDE it would have to be with a lighter, cheaper operating car. I don't have the financial tolerance to "race" a C6 or C7 Corvette. The NASA NP01 can be purchased for about the same money as a new GS and it needs no further work or modifications to race. Owners say operating costs are very similar to Spec Miata while having a much higher performance envelope. If I go with a production car I will look hard the f86 platform or a Miata. I think the OP is committed to the C7 and that's great but I think everyone has been respectful in their suggestions.
M2¢
Originally Posted by badhabit_wb
I agree. I've enjoyed this thread as well.
Start another thread if you guys want to discuss "other options" for racing/trackdays. This is a Corvette forum and most of us want to track Corvettes because we're "Corvette guys". That and it's the best "bang for the buck" track/race car out there.
My only material input to the OP is to build his car to a specific class/rule-set vs. going truly unlimited. The car won't be competitive (as heavy chevy said) if some of the big guns show up. And in this region (VIR area) there are big guns who show up. Just my $0.02.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and I completely understand the rationale for a lighter low power car but it's just not what I'm interested in right now. However, I did just pick up a Civic Type R and plan to do a little track time in that while I get this project sorted so it'll be interesting to try a lighter FWD car.
Good suggestions on the classing piece. A major reason to try out TT is because it is pretty much impossible to get clean laps in HPDE with this pace to set a time and understand if you're improving. The only way I've found to do it is to grid up first and then hold the group behind me for a lap while I warm the tires and then go. I might be get one lap if nobody entered the track late. I also never considered myself competitive but recently I did an autocross and realized that when put in that environment I get very competitive. We'll see if I actually find that fun or not.
I've been thinking and I should be able to limit power on the LT1 427 just by reducing the rev limiter. That should allow me to detune the car to TT1 if I want without any mechanical changes. Exactly how much I need to lower the revs will depend greatly on the final weight with my big **** in the car but I only plan on doing that if I'm way off the pace in TTU.
The 2019 GS 1LT M7 with PDR I ordered from Mike Furman should be built by now so I hope to have it in the next week or two. I have a bunch of parts on the way and plan to start with installing the suspension and brakes myself. I'll post a link here to the build thread once I get started. I've decided to call this the "C7 GS.R".
12-31-2018, 03:22 PM
I'd really encourage you to try something in the moderate HP range (200-300) and sub 2700lbs. If you take me up on my offer, I'll even rent you my BRZ for a day (it's on the low end of the power spectrum though). 
