Quickshift_C5

And my experience has been quite different, along with many other experienced drivers on the forum. We must have bought all the good sets. Sorry about that.

village idiot

Really strange because I had another session or two left in mine when I took them off!

Mordeth

I do not agree at all with village idiot's characterization of NT01s. His experience is the exception, and not the rule. I've used NT01s for years as a backup tire to Hoosiers when doing HPDE and they offer phenomenal grip (I lose maybe 2-3 seconds only), seemingly last forever (20-30 heat cycles), manage heat reasonably well and can be driven carefully in mildly wet conditions if they still have the lateral grooves left. And once those grooves go, they function pretty much as a racing slick with even more grip for the last 3/32nds of available useful tread. This experience is pretty much repeated by every single person I know for years and years and years in a wide variety of cars, including my race car. They can also be driven on the street to the track with no drama. They are a tried and true tire.

Also, when you are ready, there is nothing to be afraid of by going to a competition radial tire with 100 treadwear. In fact, as you get quicker it is often times safer as these tires were actually designed to be on a race track, unlike MPSS. They are simply more consistent and predictable, easy to continue to learn on and still provide plenty of feedback. These are tires that were designed to take corners. When you and your instructor feel you are ready you should consider a move to these. Either NT01 or R888R are both great choices.

GoatHead

So, for a Green student, how many track days on average I can get out of R888R and NT01? Assuming 90-120 min driving on the track. I am trying to quantify the $ saving.

Is a 2-days events considered 2 track days or 1 track day? I am still learning terminology.

lobsterroboto

you use heat cycles for R Compounds.

30 heat cycles is 30 heat cycles (1 session being a cycle)

a better driver will wear the tire tread faster and may cord them well before you do.

a track weekend is an event or "2 days" translates into 8 to 12 "sessions" a weekend which coincidently are also heat cycles if you heat up the tires each session.

Quickshift_C5

GoatHead

How do they compare to Michelin Super Sport, if you have experience with them?

Quickshift_C5

lobsterroboto

When I started tracking my C7 I used the PSS exclusively for over a year. Helped me develop a relationship with the car so to speak. It's a great tire and an excellent tire to learn on. Just expensive.

Made for a costly season that's for sure. (I've bought more than one set used for cheap with 5/32 they'll last a weekend or two)

They get super greasy in 15 minutes or so. They fall pretty quickly performance wise. The car by default under-steers so you'll end up cording the edges of the fronts before you get anywhere near the rears.

Remember don't let "lap times" be your barometer for success, tires can make you feel like a hero. Getting a decent time running slicks isn't going to help you in the long run. you're going to struggle with grip progression and not know how to let the car rotate without it scaring the **** out of you.

Stay with street tires as long as you can.

NT01 to PSS is night and day difference. But Hoosier R7/A7 are night and day difference to NT01's so keep that in mind.

IansInGarage

As a instructor I agree; stick with street tires (non-runflat) as long as you can. Save money and stick with current wheels IMO. Also something no one speaks about; but since your taking your life in your hand at track; make one mod/change at a time. Don't make the mistake of hitting a track event and then coming back to next track event with 50 changes to car.

synner

Extra grip and tires that provide, possibly, less audible feedback as they get close to the limit is never a good thing for a beginner. Invest in coaching with a stock vehicle and learn the limits of the driver first, the car second. Too many people throw money and parts at a car. Excessive speed or grip isn't needed. You mentioned pads but not a high quality DOT4 brake fluid in the original post, fresh fluid is ALWAYS important. That plus a good helmet, harness and instructor is all you need to start.

GoatHead

I am not planning on throwing money on parts. I am looking at it at the economical level and not performance level; I am trying to save money. All of the basic and necessary stuff are taking care of. SRF brake fluid, 0w-40 oil, diff fluid change, HANS Hybrid, etc.

I picked up a set of lightly used MSS. In addition to my current set of tires (one event), so I am probably set for a year. Next year will likely be very very expensive...

synner

Every year after your first year is expensive. Totally worth it.

The HACK

If you're in this "sport" for economics and saving money you will SORELY be disappointed. HPDE and any form of motorsport upwards from HPDE are some of the MOST expensive individual sports in the world.

There are only two things in this sport where spending money to save money make sense. First is spending money on safety equipment, because if you're DEAD in a crash no amount of money saved is going to do you any good. The other is spending money only when you need it (outside of the safety precautions, because you NEED it).

My personal opinion is, preventatively spending money to try and save money in motorsports never work out well.

Nowanker

I'd recommend just one performance mod while you're still 'coming up to speed'.
Get a track oriented alignment done!
Your tires will thank you.

village idiot

That's just silly. It's an expensive sport that doesn't mean you can't be smart about spending money. There are a lot of ways to curb costs- from big brake kits to cooling to running 18" wheels instead of 20"

FAUEE

If you want to save money, buy a Miata. You can buy and throw away a miata for what youre gonna pay for a set of tires and track insurance.

IMO, any Corvette C5 and up is not a good beginner track car. Its much faster than you as a driver are, and will put you beyond your limits, and allow bad behavior you really want rid of.

Slow in, fast out. It applies to cars as well as corners.

The HACK

I've seen this happen way too many times to comment on each individual case, but I can give you a couple of examples.

New guy at HPDE, I sat right seat a couple of times. Towards the end of the year he shows up with $4,000 worth of new "track" wheels and tires. Had a good time, and I never see him again at our local events. I just assumed he "graduated" and started doing events with other organizations. Then I see him about 12 months later at a local club gathering, he recognized me and we started chatting about a few other things, and as it turns out, he had a kid, basically stopped coming to the track because, well, kid, and ended up selling that $4,000 wheel and tire set to someone else for $1,000 and took a huge loss.

Of course that $3,000 loss probably pays for 4 months of pre-school where he lives, so yeah. No sympathy.

Another guy, invested $7,000 (because BMW?) into a top end big brake kit. Not a beginner by any stretch, but comes to HPDEs maybe 2 times a year. Was complaining to me that our HPDEs are way too expensive, and I had to point out to him, that at an average of 2 DEs per year, in the span of 4 years his brakes are costing nearly $900 PER WEEKEND. The look on his face was priceless when I break that down for him.

There are of course, tons of other anecdotes I can give you. And you're right, for a sport so damn expensive that you HAVE to be smart spending money. Hence my recommendation. Don't spend it unless you need it. Unless it's for safety. Because I myself has gone through just about every iteration in this sport, and know that you're basically wasting money by putting money before you figure out what you really need.

Especially for beginners? Again, I see this way too often. Enthusiasts come to do a HPDE, gets hooked (it is incredibly addictive, the sensation of speed*). Out of every 100 HPDE noobs, only about 50% return for more events. No matter how enthusiastic. You will always get about half of them that love the event, but hate the "stress" it puts on their cars and the expenses that goes with it. Then out of that 50%, only about half will continue to do this after 4-5 events and progress out of the "beginners" skill level. For whatever reason, be it time (it is time consuming), resources, scheduling, work, whatever, their interest wanes after 6-8 months or half a dozen event and you won't see them back at DEs. Of the remaining 25 people from the initial 100 noobs, only about 10 will stick around and continue to do more after about 2 years of coming to DEs. Be it just boredom from driving around in a circle, or whatever reason, out of the initial 100 noobs only about 10 will continue to do DEs regularly. Out of those 10, within the next 3-5 years, all but 2 will likely have an incident. It doesn't have to be car to car or car to wall. It could be a close call (nasty spin off, mechanical failure on track, whatever), and about 75% of those 8 will stop coming back.

So in reality? 4 out of 100 will progress to a point where track wheels and tires and big brake kits make financial sense. At that rate, if everyone who signed up for DE for the first time, had a great time, and went out and "invested" $4,000 in tires, wheels, and brakes? It just means there's 4 people out of the bunch that will be taking full advantage of the 75% discount a few years later when all 96 of the noobs try to sell their wheels, tires, and big brake kit.

My final advice to the OP? Don't buy new. Go to the classified on various forums. There are plenty of "deals" to be had from people who bought new, and 6 months later realize that this sport isn't for them. Pick up a set of used rim and tires for 1/4th what they're worth NEW. That would be a sensible way to approaching spending money to save money, IMO.

village idiot

Well yeah, don't invest in stuff unless you're reasonably sure you'll be doing it for a while. Certain stuff like BBK and wheels hold their value pretty well. IE: I bought forged 18's for my GS and probably saved about $1000 in tires so far (plus, I could actually run the tire I wanted to run and they're lighter). I bet I could sell the wheels and only take a $500 hit. If I bought used, I'd probably just be out $250 for the shipping.



i can't stress the bolded enough. Plus, spending +$1000 in consumables every track day really does a lot to make you get tired of the sport and discourage you from going out. I don't even think about my Miata/BRZ's consumables. Track day basically costs as much as going out on a saturday night anyway.

FAUEE

Interesting points about the return rates. In fairness, i fall onto one of those halves that fell out. I grt to them infrequently, but ended up buying a c4 becauze it was cheaper to run, then have been spending time getting it reliable enough to use. Its FINALLY at that point like 3 years later, as i was doing the work on my own when i had time, but its a great point... it gets hard to keep doing these events. When i started i was pretty regular, but after a near wreck day 1 session 1 in the car, it went in for major reliability work. Mg other car got traded, and so i was out of hpde until that car got sorted.

In that time, ive decided im more of a track tourist than a specialized track expert sort of guy. Id rather run events at all the great tracks i can than keep running my local track over and over again. That means likely having new instructors every time, which means a new person to put at ease that youre not going to get them killed every time. Showing up in a slower car goes a long way towards that IMO, and having the car built for reliability amd safety more than outright pace.

FWIW, I have roughly 5500$ into my car, with falken rt615k tires on it. I think if you take the budget for running a c7 gs in hpde and break down the costs, you will see its cheaper to run the slower car. It was for sure when i start down this path instead of using my c6 GS.