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2009 Z06 oil issues

 
Old 12-31-2018, 09:50 AM
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Default 2009 Z06 oil issues

I posted this in the C6 tech forum but I'm not getting any traction, so I'm trying here.

I've a new to me 2009 Z06. It had 18,200 when I picked it up two weeks ago. Stock heads with new guides, cam, Kooks headers, FAST intake, Haltech, tuned.

Normally you run it up to temp, shut it off, wait 5 to 20 minutes and check the oil. With this car, in 2 minutes it is already drained back into the pan and doesn't even show on the stick. Just to be sure that it had the right amount of oil in it we drained it completely (using both plugs), and refilled the tank with the correct amount. Ran the car a few minutes then shut it down. Pulled the stick at 1 minute and it read a quart low. At 5 minutes the oil level wasn't even on the stick. Clearly, this isn't right.

Jus to be absolutely sure, we did it again. Same results.

Additionally, when it has the correct amount it smokes out the exhaust like an old coal fired locomotive until it burns approximately a quart and then stops smoking altogether. I say approximately because it is all but impossible to really measure what is in the tank.

I think the issues are connected, but to me being able to check the oil level is the primary concern.

My 2008 Z06 certainly did not act like this. I could check the oil anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes with repeatable results.

Is there a check valve somewhere that I should examine? Anyone run into something like this before?
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
I posted this in the C6 tech forum but I'm not getting any traction, so I'm trying here.

I've a new to me 2009 Z06. It had 18,200 when I picked it up two weeks ago. Stock heads with new guides, cam, Kooks headers, FAST intake, Haltech, tuned.

Normally you run it up to temp, shut it off, wait 5 to 20 minutes and check the oil. With this car, in 2 minutes it is already drained back into the pan and doesn't even show on the stick. Just to be sure that it had the right amount of oil in it we drained it completely (using both plugs), and refilled the tank with the correct amount. Ran the car a few minutes then shut it down. Pulled the stick at 1 minute and it read a quart low. At 5 minutes the oil level wasn't even on the stick. Clearly, this isn't right.

Jus to be absolutely sure, we did it again. Same results.

Additionally, when it has the correct amount it smokes out the exhaust like an old coal fired locomotive until it burns approximately a quart and then stops smoking altogether. I say approximately because it is all but impossible to really measure what is in the tank.

I think the issues are connected, but to me being able to check the oil level is the primary concern.

My 2008 Z06 certainly did not act like this. I could check the oil anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes with repeatable results.

Is there a check valve somewhere that I should examine? Anyone run into something like this before?
lurk, mine can be properly ckd from 5-30 mins not much level chg.

Last edited by froggy47; 12-31-2018 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:49 PM
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Has some one changed the motor before you bought it? Taken the oil pan off and maybe put one of those avid (I think they are called) things In the oil pan and messed it up somehow?
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lbzraptor View Post
Has some one changed the motor before you bought it? Taken the oil pan off and maybe put one of those avid (I think they are called) things In the oil pan and messed it up somehow?
I cannot say positively that the engine is original, though there is no record of it having been swapped. I have a copy of the receipt from the cam swap that HPT did, but nothing to indicate a complete engine change. It definitely does not have the Aviaid baffle installed. This much I am sure of, as there are no bolts that have been added through the bottom of the pan with which to mount the baffle. There's just no missing that. There's one for sale now in the for sale forum. if you look at his picture there is no missing the 3 mounting bolts with sealer. My pan does not have them.



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Old 12-31-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
I cannot say positively that the engine is original, though there is no record of it having been swapped. I have a copy of the receipt from the cam swap that HPT did, but nothing to indicate a complete engine change. It definitely does not have the Aviaid baffle installed. This much I am sure of, as there are no bolts that have been added through the bottom of the pan with which to mount the baffle. There's just no missing that. There's one for sale now in the for sale forum. if you look at his picture there is no missing the 3 mounting bolts with sealer. My pan does not have them.


The arrow is too cool.

lol
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:44 PM
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If I remember right the arrow are 2009 and up. As I recall, the 2008 and older doesn't have the arrow and definitely doesn't have the threaded mounting bosses for the zr1 style water/oil cooler/heater setup.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:02 PM
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My 07 has the arrows
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:48 PM
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That is not typical and there aren't any check valves or resistors in the system. My car has baffles in the pan and dry sump and the oil check procedure was still the same. I'd be concerned with the burning and how quick oil is working through the system to drain back into the pan. What oil pressure are you seeing on start up and how do the spark plugs look?
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by _BlueZ06_ View Post
That is not typical and there aren't any check valves or resistors in the system. My car has baffles in the pan and dry sump and the oil check procedure was still the same. I'd be concerned with the burning and how quick oil is working through the system to drain back into the pan. What oil pressure are you seeing on start up and how do the spark plugs look?
My 08 had the baffles too, and no issues like this.

Oil pressure is normal on start and when hot. It's a little higher than my 08 was but not hair raisingly so. It also has 50 thousand less miles than the 08 did. I share your concern, all of that oil in the engine and not in the tank on startup could really be a problem. It has to be up to the crank or higher, and I wonder if the pump pulls air for a second. I'm not sure of the gauge moves fast enough to show me an issue there. The starter is slow when hot, but I'm leaning toward the Kooks 2 inch pipes baking it more than anything else.

I have not pulled a plug yet, but that is a good plan. I'm sure that it is oily. That initial bit of oil it goes though is passing through the engine and out the pipes. the plugs will be oily, I am sure. Drove it to Atlanta and back from here this last Saturday, approximately 10 hours of drive time. No smoke, no oil in the MM catch can. Didn't seem to use any oil but then again measuring it is not an exact science right now. It seems to be stable at a quart and a half low, but that's +/- because it's draining back into the engine so fast.

Originally Posted by _BlueZ06
My 07 has the arrows
I don't remember them on my 08 but doesn't mean they were not there!

Thanks for the responses, anything helps.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
My 08 had the baffles too, and no issues like this.

Oil pressure is normal on start and when hot. It's a little higher than my 08 was but not hair raisingly so. It also has 50 thousand less miles than the 08 did. I share your concern, all of that oil in the engine and not in the tank on startup could really be a problem. It has to be up to the crank or higher, and I wonder if the pump pulls air for a second. I'm not sure of the gauge moves fast enough to show me an issue there. The starter is slow when hot, but I'm leaning toward the Kooks 2 inch pipes baking it more than anything else.

I have not pulled a plug yet, but that is a good plan. I'm sure that it is oily. That initial bit of oil it goes though is passing through the engine and out the pipes. the plugs will be oily, I am sure. Drove it to Atlanta and back from here this last Saturday, approximately 10 hours of drive time. No smoke, no oil in the MM catch can. Didn't seem to use any oil but then again measuring it is not an exact science right now. It seems to be stable at a quart and a half low, but that's +/- because it's draining back into the engine so fast.



I don't remember them on my 08 but doesn't mean they were not there!

Thanks for the responses, anything helps.
Sox-Fan,
If I'm understanding the issue, is there any chance that oil dipstick or oil dipstick tube has somehow been modified? I don't have experience with the LS7 so I don't even know if it has a traditional dipstick in the crank, etc. But I did have a friend that had headers installed on his car (non Vette) and the headers had a piece that allowed the oil dipstick tube to be moved to clear the headers. But this also changed how deep into the sump the dipstick went in and it showed low oil for the longest time until he figure it out.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
I posted this in the C6 tech forum but I'm not getting any traction, so I'm trying here.

I've a new to me 2009 Z06. It had 18,200 when I picked it up two weeks ago. Stock heads with new guides, cam, Kooks headers, FAST intake, Haltech, tuned.

Normally you run it up to temp, shut it off, wait 5 to 20 minutes and check the oil. With this car, in 2 minutes it is already drained back into the pan and doesn't even show on the stick. Just to be sure that it had the right amount of oil in it we drained it completely (using both plugs), and refilled the tank with the correct amount. Ran the car a few minutes then shut it down. Pulled the stick at 1 minute and it read a quart low. At 5 minutes the oil level wasn't even on the stick. Clearly, this isn't right.

Jus to be absolutely sure, we did it again. Same results.

Additionally, when it has the correct amount it smokes out the exhaust like an old coal fired locomotive until it burns approximately a quart and then stops smoking altogether. I say approximately because it is all but impossible to really measure what is in the tank.

I think the issues are connected, but to me being able to check the oil level is the primary concern.

My 2008 Z06 certainly did not act like this. I could check the oil anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes with repeatable results.

Is there a check valve somewhere that I should examine? Anyone run into something like this before?
I'm going to ask the obvious question but how much oil did you refill with? You say you refilled with the correct amount but never say the amount.

06-08 dry sump is 8 quarts. 09-13 is 10.5 quarts.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
Sox-Fan,
If I'm understanding the issue, is there any chance that oil dipstick or oil dipstick tube has somehow been modified? I don't have experience with the LS7 so I don't even know if it has a traditional dipstick in the crank, etc. But I did have a friend that had headers installed on his car (non Vette) and the headers had a piece that allowed the oil dipstick tube to be moved to clear the headers. But this also changed how deep into the sump the dipstick went in and it showed low oil for the longest time until he figure it out.
It's a dry sump, so the dipstick is in the tank, not the sump. Header clearance isn't an issue. And it doesn't explain the tank emptying out back into the engine. in less than 2 minutes

Originally Posted by Mugen1516 View Post
I'm going to ask the obvious question but how much oil did you refill with? You say you refilled with the correct amount but never say the amount.

06-08 dry sump is 8 quarts. 09-13 is 10.5 quarts.
Didn't post it because it didn't see how it is relevant to the tank emptying back into the engine in 2 minutes, but I think that you're getting at the car burning off a quart almost immediately so the question makes sense. I've put in two Mobil 1 5w-30 5 quart containers and did not top off the extra half quart. It is an '09 car, and I have verified the correct '09 half plastic tank, with the funny little second tank that GM added on the side. I also checked the vent line from the little side tank to the main vent, and it seems to move air freely.

I've got an '08 tank sitting on the shelf here that I was considering sending to Lingenfelter to expand and add the Aviaid baffle at the same time, but I don't know if that's going to take care of anything.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
It's a dry sump, so the dipstick is in the tank, not the sump. Header clearance isn't an issue. And it doesn't explain the tank emptying out back into the engine. in less than 2 minutes



Didn't post it because it didn't see how it is relevant to the tank emptying back into the engine in 2 minutes, but I think that you're getting at the car burning off a quart almost immediately so the question makes sense. I've put in two Mobil 1 5w-30 5 quart containers and did not top off the extra half quart. It is an '09 car, and I have verified the correct '09 half plastic tank, with the funny little second tank that GM added on the side. I also checked the vent line from the little side tank to the main vent, and it seems to move air freely.

I've got an '08 tank sitting on the shelf here that I was considering sending to Lingenfelter to expand and add the Aviaid baffle at the same time, but I don't know if that's going to take care of anything.
What I was trying to establish is if the correct amount of oil (10.5 quarts) was put back in. If 8 quarts was mistakenly used (like an 08 car) then you'd be 2.5 quarts short and the level wouldn't read on the dipstick more than likely. Just trying to rule that out .
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mugen1516 View Post
What I was trying to establish is if the correct amount of oil (10.5 quarts) was put back in. If 8 quarts was mistakenly used (like an 08 car) then you'd be 2.5 quarts short and the level wouldn't read on the dipstick more than likely. Just trying to rule that out .
Yup, I get it. Good question, but it was 10 quarts.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:42 PM
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Isn't it the oil pump that controls leakdown in a dry sump? It's possible something there got jacked during the cam install but that wouldn't completely explain your issues. I'd also be checking plugs and valve seals.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by synner View Post
Isn't it the oil pump that controls leakdown in a dry sump? It's possible something there got jacked during the cam install but that wouldn't completely explain your issues. I'd also be checking plugs and valve seals.
Would the spark plugs or valve seals cause the dry sump tank to empty itself that quickly after I shut the engine off?
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:34 PM
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No you have multiple issues going on hence why I mention oil pump for leakdown and oil seals or maybe even rings to discuss smoke clouds.
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:15 PM
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Thanks. It only smokes until it is down a quart, then it stops completely. Drove it from Charleston to Atlanta and back this past weekend. Started out down a quart. Did not smoke at all. Did not seem to use a drop of oil (as best I can tell given how hard it is to check the oil). The oil pump is a great idea that I am going to follow up on. Not sure rings or seals will stop being an issue if they are, when the tank is down a quart though.
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:54 PM
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Maybe there is a pinhole in the tank or system somewhere. You know when pouring gas out of a jug if there is no breather hole the gas goes out slowly but as soon as you open a little hole to let air in the gas pours out.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sox-Fan View Post
Thanks. It only smokes until it is down a quart, then it stops completely. Drove it from Charleston to Atlanta and back this past weekend. Started out down a quart. Did not smoke at all. Did not seem to use a drop of oil (as best I can tell given how hard it is to check the oil). The oil pump is a great idea that I am going to follow up on. Not sure rings or seals will stop being an issue if they are, when the tank is down a quart though.
WAG the symptoms which you describe very well, seem like classic overfilled oil system. Did you check the intake? Sorry if I missed. See if it's all oiled up? Maybe jury rig a catch can & see if it fills up?
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