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I delivered my 2013 C6 Grand Sport to Vengeance Racing today to transform my. My goal is to keep this Corvette GS street legal, maintain good driveability and reliability to get me to work and participate in local club events, and participate in several HPDE throughout the year, and maybe NASA time trials; this vette will not be a dedicated race car.
Phase 0: I already installed the following -
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MGW shifter
Elite Engineering 1/4" Tunnel Plate
Elite Engineering Aluminum Frame Savers
Elite Engineering Catch Cans
CAGS 1-4 Skip Shift Bypass Fuse
B&B PRT mufflers with black tips
Front Tow Hook
Sequential Rear Light Kit
I've been active in HPDE for 15 years starting in a 2004 LS2 403 C5 Coupe (AlohaC5); participating in HPDE solo road course events at VIR, Watkins Glen, NJ Motorsports Park, Summit Point, Pitt Race, Road Atlanta, NCM Motorsports Park, Memphis International Raceway, and Barber Motorsports Park with various clubs having a great time! A true passion that I can thank my wife, Janet, for getting me into as a birthday present so many years ago. It's good to be back! Looking forward to posting updates, photos and dyno numbers when ready.
Lap Data Collection: Trying both "Harry's Lap Timer" and "Track Addict" on my iPhone with Veepeak OBDCheck BLE+ Bluetooth 4.0 OBD-2 Scanner. Lap Data Mounts: Amazon PanaVise 13250 BarGrip XL Action Camera Bar Mount with a Vastar Mobile Phone Mount Adapter for iPhone video, etc.
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Wilkes Performance LS3 Heads CNC P&P 5-angle valve job, milled 0.015 (approx. 11.3:1 CR) with a Cometic 0.041" head gaskets
RPM Roll Bar 4-Point with SCCA Bar Chromoly Roll Bar System - Flat Black
Brey-Krause R-9140 Rear Tow Hook
Brey Krause Fire Extinguisher Mount Kit
H3R Fire Extinguisher
LG G2 Coilovers
LG G1 Anti-sway Bars
LG Heavy Duty Quiet End Links
Ridetech Delrin Control Arm Bushing Kit
KOOLMAT Tie Rod/Ball Joint/Sway Bar Boot Heat Shield Insulation Kit
AMT Upper Control Arm Stud Kit
AMT Adjustable Camber Kit
AMT Control Engine Mounts, Race 3/8" shorter than stock
Wilwood Aero6 Front / FNSL4 Rear With Parking Brake and ThermLock Piston Technology and Stainless Steel Lines
Performance AFX 2-piece Slotted Rotors - Front and Rear
Advanced Auto Fabrication (AAF) C6 Front Brake Cooling Duct Kit
Carbotech XP20/XP10, and G-Loc R12/R10
Autometer A-Pillar Triple Gauge Pod
Autometer Ultra-Lite Digital Coolant Water Temperature Gauge, Oil Pressure Gauge, and Oil Temp Gauge
Forgestar F14 18x11 +38 Front and 18x12 +50 Rear
Hoosier R7 315/30-18 and 335/30-18 (or 305/660-18 and 325/660-18 scrubs)
SKF Wheel Bearings and ARP Wheel Long Studs
Katech Front fascia reinforcement required for splitter installation
(C7 Carbon) ZR1 Rear Spoiler Extended Version, Side Skirt Set and Front Splitter (Gloss Black)
Sparco Evo XL Race Seats
Schroth Flexi 2x2 Racing 6-point Harnesses
Airbag simulation plug (ASP) 2005-2013 (Driver and Passenger Seats)
CCA Billet Racing Pedals, Grid Finish, C6CGG-1
Alignment front (Caster, 7.3*; Camber, -2.5*; Toe -1/32” for total of -1/16”) & rear (Camber, -1.5*; Toe, 0”, Thrust Angle, 0*)
Corner balance
Future: SPA 4L AFFF 4 Nozzle Fire Suppression System (1 x Engine Bay, 2 x Interior, and 1 x Gas Tank) by Piper Motorsports
Future: Tilton Engineering or RPS Dual Clutch with new GM slave cylinder
Future: Tick Performance Remote Clutch Speed Bleeder Line and Billet Release Bearing Support
Future: Tick Performance Torque Tube Bushing for Corvette C6, 12mm GM #88894026 and new GM rear seal
Future: RPM Transmission “Level VI” TR6060 Transmission Z06 (NOTE: Instead of buying a set of aftermarket heads, e.g., Trick Flow GenX 255s $2600, I would rather have the better gearing)
Recommended Fluids/Oils:
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Red Line 30504 D4 ATF Transmission Fluid
Red Line 30404 Power Steering Fluid
Red Line 10W40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
Red Line 57904 75W90 Synthetic Gear Oil with Red Line 80301 Limited Slip Friction Modifier 2 oz.
Red Line 80204 Water Wetter Coolant Additives
Motul 600 Brake Fluid
My 2004 C5 LS2 (528 RWHP / 487 RWTQ) at VIR when I was "AlohaC5" on the CF many years ago:
. SOLD in 2015
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LS2 403 Forged Engine
AFR 215 Mongoose Heads (Port & Polished by Tony Mamo)
239/243 .612/.617 113+3 Camotion Cam (14 degrees of overlap; GREAT power & torque but too much overlap for road courses. Harder on valvetrain)
PAC Dual Valve Springs with Titanium Retainers
7.400” Chrome moly Hardened Pushrods
Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7 Roller Rockers (Recommend going with the Comp CAMS Ultra Pro Magnum™ Rocker Kit)
FAST 90 Intake Manifold
GM LS2 90 Throttle Body - P&P by Vengeance Racing
Callaway Honker Cold Air Intake (CAI)
C5R Timing Chain
ATI 10% Pulley
42# Flow Matched Injectors
DeWitts Performance Aluminum Radiator
Canton Racing 3 Quart Oil Accusump System (a constant problem...always leaked)
GM T1 Transmission Cooler
GM Z06 Power Steering Cooler
AMW Oil Catch Can
RPS Dual Disc Clutch with Aluminum Flywheel
RPM Transmission “Level V” MN6 Transmission
DTE Stage 2 Micro-polished 3.42 gear set with 300M HD Output Shaft
MGW Billet Short Shifter
American Racing 1 ¾” Stainless Steel Long Tube Headers
GHL Stainless Steel "Bullet" exhaust system (Cat-backs)
DRM Bilstein/Hypercoil Coilovers
LG Motorsports GStop 6 Piston Brake Package (Front Wilwood Calipers)
Phadt Camber Kit (Extra shims included)
GM T1 anti-sway bars
Speed Bleeders
SS braided brake lines
Front Brake Cooling Ducts
SKF Performance Hub Bearings with ARP studs
CCW 18x11 and 18x12 C14 (Silver) with new Hoosier R6 tires
SCCA/NASA certified roll cage by Piper Motorsports
Fire suppression system (engine, driver & passenger, and rear fuel tank)
SPARCO EVO 2+ Race Seats (Driver and Passenger)
SCHROTH 5-point Harnesses
Air bags fully functional
Fire Extinguisher (passenger floor mounted)
Phoenix Racing Front and Rear Folding Tow Hooks
Autometer Ultralight Gauges: Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure and Transmission Temperature
Last edited by Gray Ghost GS; 03-04-2021 at 11:15 PM.
I would probably take a different approach and focus more on the most influential things to fast laps:
1) Driver
2) Brakes (2nd not because of time, but because of safety and consistency)
3) Tires
All of this I would do in conjunction with safety. I don't want to preach here. I think it's important for people to do their research and decide what makes sense for them and/or what risks they take for the speeds they'll see. At a minimum, I would get a good helmet with a HANS rated for the restraint system you're going to use.
1) Get a data setup and learn to use it. The budget can be big or small. In my C7, I use the PDR setup. In my 981 Cayman I use a VBOX HD2. This will undoubtedly make you a better driver and make the largest improvement if used correctly.
2) I really like the AP radi-cals on my cars. Pick the pads that make sense for you. At a minimum, I'd do lines, fluid, and pads and then buy another set of pads and rotors to have as backup.
3) If you only plan on running one set, get a set of tires that can be run in the both rain and dry. On my C7Z I run pirelli scrubs in the dry and MPSS in the wet. On my 981 I run RE-71R Bridgestones wet and dry and they work great.
As speed picks up, I'd start looking at any necessary reliability mods (oil, bushings, etc).
I have a '10 GS Manual that's pretty extensively modded for track use. As far as failures or breaks, the only things that have technically failed are the motor mounts and tie rod end boots.
Motor mounts will dry up, crack, and leak with track time. I replaced them just recently with AMT mounts. The tie rod end boots melt from track use because they're so close to the brake rotors. I replaced with new ones and wrapped in heat tape.
The stock brakes leave a lot to be desired when you start getting faster. Pad taper is a common problem and nuisance. I upgraded to StopTech ST60/ST40 BBKs.
Seats suck when you start using sticky tires. I went with Cobra Suzukas.
I have a lot of other mods but those are the main "problems." The GS is a pretty solid car to start with IMO.
Thanks. I forgot about the heat wrap on the tie rod ends to protect from brake heat. I will add the AMT motor mounts to my list. I had motor mounts on my C5 that worked well and made a difference. Interesting to hear about the stock brakes.
I agree with the above comment. I have a manual 2013' GS that I've been tracking since 2014. Over the last 4 years I haven't had any mechanical issues outside of needing to replace cats twice. In my opinion, the only out of the box things that need to be addressed are the seats and the stock brakes if you're running sticky tires and pushing it.
I upgraded my C5 brakes to a Wilwood BBK, which worked great! I ended up using the Wilwood BBK on the Mustang too. I will try the stock GS brakes first to check performance.
However, if I decide to upgrade I would probably go with Wilwood again since it's proven technology for me under performance conditions (AP, StopTech and others are great too).
Sounds like a good plan. Below is a link to a thread I wrote over 3 years ago about how the stock padlets held up at VIR Full when I was an intermediate student on street tires. Based on your driving experience I would at least consider running a 1-piece race pad.
Do the GS dry sumps benefit from the inserts/extensions that are available form the aftermarket? Or overkill for DE?
The manual GS comes with the larger tank (system capacity 10.5 quarts), so my assumption is the factory system would need to be replace by a full after market setup like the A.R.E. to see legitimate benefits.
Good feedback and informative post re: brakes. I'm currently using the 1-piece brake pads for street driving; never a fan of the stock padlets design.... I plan use the Carbotech XP12 and XP10s, or the Hawk DTC-70 and DTC-60 race pads. Is there a preference for stainless steel brake lines? I heard some brands will throw a code while others do not. How about supplemental front brake cooling on the Grand Sport? Required? I appreciate everyone's feedback and experiences. I don't plan to modify my oil sump system.
I installed stainless steel brake lines on my car late in its track life (66K miles). Personally, there was no change in performance/feel but I don't think I'm hard on brakes plus I don't run slicks. So far I haven't had any codes since I install the lines, and the car is currently at 120K miles. I did install a full brake ducting kit with backing plate 1/2 year prior to the SS-lines (57K miles) and I think that is what has allowed me to run cheap Centric blank rotors without having cracking issues.
Rebuild front calipers with Stainless Steel Pistons (summer 2018, 114K)
This clip is before I retuned the engine. In this clip I was making just around 410/385 HP/TRQ at the wheels; now I making 420/410 HP/TRQ at the wheels.
Mike - a few thoughts. With your experience you know the necessity of proper safety so no need to go there. I have a 2010 GS that I have tracked since it came off the line. With all the upgrades I've done to address the weak points and as prevention, I will respectfully take the other side of the GS as a turn key. IMO, virtually no street car is off the showroom floor. Almost all need some/many of the upgrades you are thinking about and that have been recommended. I don't say this to be disagreeable but rather to dispel the notion that our cars can be regularly tracked with good speed or reliability right out of the showroom. Perhaps for the 1st few track days save the brake fluid but after that you need to break out the checkbook, large.
That said, I like the following from your list: Rad, the ATI, bushings, sways (3rd best mod in terms of improvement behind only tires and aero), coilovers, motor mounts, heat shield. I have not added headers due to db limit @ my home track being lower than what the car makes stock but wish I could. Another 40 - 50 hp would allow the car to pull like a GT3 RS.
I agree with others above re: the brakes. You've used the Wilwoods so you know the benefits of thicker pads and easier changes. My W6A's taper just as much as the stockers but it takes half the time to flip. This adds up huge when doing a dozen events per year. When I do it again on a C7 GS, I will step up to AP Racing. I am growing tired of the taper and the knockback of the Wilwoods.
Missing: 1) cooling ducts for the brakes. IMO an absolute must. It only takes 1x for boiled fluid to ruin your day, week, month, etc... Everything lasts longer too 2) the TPMS delete kit from LG. don't have it, have to get it. TPMS failures have ruined several track days and it's so easy to prevent (albeit not cheap) 3. camber kit - track alignment a waste w/o one 4. tow hooks - lost 50% of laps on 1st day @ VIR with Track Daze last year for guys off w/o tow hooks - don't be that guy
I would reconsider aero. Doesn't need to be a big wing, etc. I find the Katech ZR-1 spoiler, side skirts and splitter w/ undertray provides significant areo benefits. Car is much better balanced in high speed sweepers. If you took the essess or the carousel @ WGI in a GS with and without the Katech setup, you would not believe the difference. The undertray covers the hole underneath the the front end that the stock air dam uses to feed air to the brakes further enhancing front end grip by reducing lift. Aero - don't leave home without it (fascia reinforcement is a must BTW).
Other upgrades/replacements I eventually needed but not already mentioned : 1) steering rack - I'm on my 3rd one. Too much heat under the hood - should have gotten a vented hood a while back. Went with Turn One for the 3rd unit. No problems since 2) steering pump - same as rack. 3rd times a charm with Turn One unit 3) radiator fan control module 4) wheel bearing and studs (SKF + ARPs)
I used to be on the forum as "AlohaC5" when I purchased and then tracked my '04 C5 coupe for several years before selling it to another Corvette guy who wanted to keep his C6 Z06 off the road courses.
I have a '13 Grand Sport that I've kept stock except for a MGW shifter, catch can and exhaust as a "daily driver" with plans to make it my primary HPDE car in 3 years once the Extended Warranty expires.
In the meantime, I've been doing HPDE in a 2009 Mustang GT 5.0; recently moving to Northern Alabama where I recently did an HPDE at Road Atlanta with a 1:45 for my first time at that awesome track!!
I don't plan to go "upgrade crazy" as I did on my '04 C5; deciding to keep it "simple" with a H/C, headers, ATI pulley, sway bars and high capacity radiator...not much else since it's a Grand Sport (turnkey).
Here are my initial thoughts:
* 1 3/4" American Racing Headers (ARH) without Cats. I've had these headers on my '04 Corvette and '09 Mustang. Sticking with a great company and customer service. Lots of great options out there.
* Dewitt's Performance Radiator. I've had this in my '04 Corvette and '09 Mustang - again, great cooling performance and high quality at a reasonable price. Stick with what works. Great company too!
* ATI 10% Pulley & Pinned Crank Kit. Proven technology that enhances reliability at high RPMs vs. OEM. Lots of UD pulleys, but I prefer the ATI for quality. You get what you pay for. This is no different.
* GM T1 front & rear sway bars and DRM Coilover Package. I just like them. I had them on my '04 C5 and it just felt good no matter how hard you pushed it through the turns and esses. Worked for me.
* BTR Stage 3 NA cam 229/244 .615"/.595" 113+4 with the BTR cam kit (BTR chromoly pushrods, PAC 1905 dual valve springs & titanium retainers). Upgraded OEM Roller Rockers. Fresh set of lifters.
* Prothane poly bushings. StopTech Stainless Steel Brake Lines. Camber Kit. Vetteworks Sharkbar Harness Bar. Racing Seat Rails. LG Front Bump Steer Kit. LG Rear HD Tie Rod and Bump Steer Kit.
* AMT Motor Mounts - Race (3/8'' Shorter than Stock). Corvette C6 KOOLMAT Tie Rod/Ball Joint/Sway Bar Boot Heat Shield Insulation Kit to stop heat from melting rubber boots in road racing cars.
* AAF C6 Front Brake Cooling Duct Kit – Advanced Auto Fabrication. SKF wheel bearings with ARP wheel studs. TPMS delete kit from LG. C6 Z06 Grand Sport Aeropack (front, rear and side parts).
* Corvette Triple Pillar Pod : 2005-2013 C6 with Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, and Fuel Pressure gauges. Raptor Shift LED Shift Light.
* I'm not planning any aero upgrades. I'll use the Hawk or Carbotech 1-piece brake pads based on my past experiences. I don't think it needs any supplemental cooling except for the Dewitt's radiator.
What do you guys think? Am I missing anything obvious? I'm planning to have Vengeance Racing do the work once I'm ready in a few years since they contributed to my C5 build - great results. Thanks
Some additional background and context:
* I've been doing HPDE for 13 years; the last 10 in Group 3/4 (Advanced/Solo) with driver instructor endorsements from a couple HPDE car clubs.
* Car Clubs: NASA Mid Atlantic, Track Daze, Chin Motorsports, SCMC, THSCC, MVP Track Time, Just Track It with great instructors and classroom.
* Tracks include: VIR (4 configurations), Watkins Glen, NJ Motorsports Park, Summit Park (3 circuits), Pitt Race, Road Atlanta, NCM and Barber.
* Last Corvette was a highly modified C5 based on my research and trials on the road courses to figure out what worked and what didn't for me.
* I've been using TrackMate Complete for my data analysis; recently going to the Harry's Lap Time on my iPhone for video and lap data analysis.
* I've been running Hoosier slicks for over 10 years and have recently tried the Toyo RR slicks on my Mustang for best fitment on 18x11 wheels.
* I will also add a roll bar and seats for a 6-point Schroth harness similar to what I've been using in both cars with my HANs device and helmet.
Thanks, Mike
NEW
OLD
Why poly versus monoballs?
I'd like to see our swaybar/coilover set up but I can't say anything negative about DRM/T1.
Glad to see you have some of our parts on the list!
Hi, I’ve been thinking about this upgrade. Was there a difference from the swap or do you think it’s better to just upgrade to aftermarket?
Short answer:
I didn't experience any difference in braking performance, but I've only done 1 track day since the change and unfortunately had an accident early in the event so I don't have enough data to tell.
Long answer:
My car is more street car than track weapon. I did the change more so out of curiosity versus necessity. A little info: I do drive in the black group or higher, but I only run 200tw tires and don't drive 10/10th plus I see about 3-5 track events a year. So, spending several thousand dollars wasn't worth it to me. I think it make sense for someone that does 10+ events a year and/or runs sticky tires. For the most part the stock braking system has been good to me and I'm at 6ish years of ownership and 122K miles. When I took everything apart (@115K miles) I was shocked that there were NO signs of wear on anything but the dust boots and pad guide clips.
As for your mod list... with your past experiences with modded motors, why would you mod up the motor for trackday use? A cam beats up the valvetrain, headers cook the surrounding components and exacerbate clutch hydraulic issues. Just my $0.02.
Check out AMT as Mark makes a lot of great stuff for these cars now and has filled the void left by Gary at Hardbar.
Spiegler lines seem to be the latest "best lines" and are what Essex uses with their AP kids. They are coated in clear plastic to prevent the "static charge ghost" that could trip up wheel speed sensors in C5s. I don't even know if that's still an issue with C6/7s.
Take a look at GLoc pads. The guys who started Carbotech made a new company. Compounds are similar. I have been a loyal Carbotech user for a decade and just switched to Gloc. I would never touch a Hawk product after their brake dust got wet on an old C5 and bonded to everything. Ruined a set of CCW classics and the embedded brake dust rusted into my paint. Carbotech (and GLoc) compounds won't do that... ever. And they're extremely easy on rotors.
Spiegler lines seem to be the latest "best lines" and are what Essex uses with their AP kids. They are coated in clear plastic to prevent the "static charge ghost" that could trip up wheel speed sensors in C5s. I don't even know if that's still an issue with C6/7s.
Take a look at GLoc pads. The guys who started Carbotech made a new company. Compounds are similar. I have been a loyal Carbotech user for a decade and just switched to Gloc. I would never touch a Hawk product after their brake dust got wet on an old C5 and bonded to everything. Ruined a set of CCW classics and the embedded brake dust rusted into my paint. Carbotech (and GLoc) compounds won't do that... ever. And they're extremely easy on rotors.
Is Carbotech not a thing anymore or did the just start another stand alone brand (GLoc)?
Carbotech is still in business and provides great support for street and track customers.
__________________
Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
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01-04-2019, 06:47 PM
Future plans for my '13 Grand Sport for HPDE
