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This might be very hard to answer if you’ve never had any experience with the other car but currently I own a 2011 grand sport which I like to track and intend on getting more into that type of driving. I have had my eye on the fifth generation Z 28 Camaro, my question is how far away do you think the GS is and is it really ever going to have the track capability that the Z 28 has? Just throwing this out hoping to get some good feedback. Thanks in advance.
In the end a street car, pretty much any street car - is just that - a street car. It's not a proper racecar. Just throwing out something else to consider - do you ever want to go w2w? How about full-on safety, cage, etc? Performance too...things to ponder - either way, have fun/enjoy!!
Throw an AP Racing BBK, Seats, Half-cage with harness bar, and harnesses and you have a VERY track capable car.
Compared to the Camaro you're down about 70hp but you're also down about 500lbs. That 500lbs is a huge advantage.
But Brad is headed in the right direction. The big question is, What is your goal for the car? W2W, TT, HPDE, Little this, little that? This needs to be answered first.
Captain Budda is correct that a proper race car is a much better way to go.....lighter, usually better safety equipment, less expensive consumables, etc. After being in a real race car you realize that any street based car is always going to be a major compromise and the track. More importantly, a street based car that becomes a track terror usually becomes a PITA on the street due to noise, lack of comfort, etc.
Having said that, I don't know what it is about my desire to keep throwing money at street based cars trying to make them faster, better, more reliable, so on and so on for the track. I think for me, it is the past fantasy of being young and not having the means to build out a "cool" street car. I'm on my fourth street car that I track...the amount of money and time I spent on these cars is laughable when you add it all up. But I must admit that I find something very satisfying about it and the fond memories of the builds. Often times friends and other track rats are involved in the build process which further enhances the enjoyment of the experience.
I would stay with the 2011 Grand Sport and do better brakes (hard to beat AP Racing), lighten it up and really go out and enjoy the car. Even if you leave the engine bone stock, with a proper suspension, alignment, brakes and tires, there are not too many other cars that can hang with you none stop for 20-25 minute sessions. A lot of cars can do two or three hero laps, but to keep the hammer down for 20-25 minutes non stop is tough for a street car. A properly built Grand Sport is a great starting platform. Good luck and have fun!
Captain Budda is correct that a proper race car is a much better way to go.....lighter, usually better safety equipment, less expensive consumables, etc. After being in a real race car you realize that any street based car is always going to be a major compromise and the track. More importantly, a street based car that becomes a track terror usually becomes a PITA on the street due to noise, lack of comfort, etc.
Having said that, I don't know what it is about my desire to keep throwing money at street based cars trying to make them faster, better, more reliable, so on and so on for the track. I think for me, it is the past fantasy of being young and not having the means to build out a "cool" street car. I'm on my fourth street car that I track...the amount of money and time I spent on these cars is laughable when you add it all up. But I must admit that I find something very satisfying about it and the fond memories of the builds. Often times friends and other track rats are involved in the build process which further enhances the enjoyment of the experience.
I would stay with the 2011 Grand Sport and do better brakes (hard to beat AP Racing), lighten it up and really go out and enjoy the car. Even if you leave the engine bone stock, with a proper suspension, alignment, brakes and tires, there are not too many other cars that can hang with you none stop for 20-25 minute sessions. A lot of cars can do two or three hero laps, but to keep the hammer down for 20-25 minutes non stop is tough for a street car. A properly built Grand Sport is a great starting platform. Good luck and have fun!
Another one asking "what do you want from the car and or what is your goal?"
If the goal is a faster track car, a 5th Gen Z28 would not be my pick...I would look at a higher mileage C5Z instead and gut it with a freshened LS with HCI and coilovers/brakes/bushings plus safety equipment. I feel Z28's are still fetching decent money due to it being a "special trim" version.
Just be sure to be realistic with your goals. Don't mod the hell out of a street car with high hopes for faster track times when in reality you go to the track once a year then have to deal with the reduced comforts driving on the street....I did this with my last 95 Z28 Camaro. Now my current C5Z is staying fairly stock.
Throwing a street car perspective out there - this past December I was at COTA for the WRL event (driving pace car/safety car). I drove down in my new C7 Z06. I've been around COTA at speed in my race cars, LOVE that track. However, it was my first time there in my Z...I took a few hot laps during the PDS on Friday....my car was F A S T .....of course....I actually HATED it!!! Why, you might ask? After having been around that track at speed in a proper race car with full on safety equipment and race tires I actually hated it in my Z...it's bone stock, so no harnesses, racing seats, race rubber, etc....I'm flopping all around it....thinking....you know, that wall is going to be expensive LOL!! Much cheaper in the race car....I just did not feel as comfortable as I do when I'm in a racecar...I sort of have a disdain for street cars, well, other than for the street....now, the drive to COTA was a blast...well, except for the speeding ticket LOL....
Last edited by Captain Buddha; 01-22-2019 at 11:55 AM.
Full blown race cars are great if you can afford:
1) Truck to pull it
2) trailer to put the car on
3) space for race car, truck and trailer at your house.
I just sold my c5z for a 2014 Z/28. I will say the car is incredible and drives like nothing I have driven before. What a fantastic car. That being said it will never be my main track car. Yes I will occasionally take it to a track night in America or something similar to have
some fun, but that’s about it. It’s heavy and consumables will be high and often. Any well modded c6/c5 will be just as fast if not faster then a z/28 And be much easier on the wallet.
I do not miss the days of swapping brake pads and rotors back and forth on my C5. Having a track only car is much more convenient IMO. I always trailered the Z to the track. Much easier to fill the back of the truck with tools and crap than the Vette. I did it once.
I agree about towing.....even though my track cars are all technically street legal, I always load up way to much stuff in the truck "just in case". So far, the only times I've really had to dig into the "oh ****" boxes is to help others at the track that may have needed a specifc tool, tape, sealant, brake fluid, drain pan, jack, jack stands, zip ties, etc.
But it's just like insurance, the one time I don't take the stuff on the "track day checklist" is the time I'll need it, lol. But as others have said, I'm fortunate to have a truck and trailer and somewhere to store it when not in use.
The pros/cons of trailering w/ race car vs driving with a street car tip the scale to "trailer only" for me...yep, it's a PITA!!! But then again it's great having ALL of your stuff in an enclosed toy box (I used to do open trailers when I drag raced, rock crawled with Jeeps, etc). Tire cart, shelves/cabinets with all kinds of spares, pit bike, N2O tank/hose, pit box (pitboxes.com - Ricky Sanders makes NICE stuff!!) full of tools, spares, i.e. - everything I need and then some!! If I need it in the garage we unstrap it and roll it in....it's setup specifically for GTA/TA2/GT2 tube-frame cars. The trailer is a mobile workshop, hangout area (A/C), etc...plus it keeps all of my stuff DRY!
1. A used race car will cost you as much as building a fresh one your way with a fresh street car to start. Things wear out, things break, and you'll want to re-do things to your fit/style anyway.
2. A street based car has major pros vs. a tube chassis race-only car in that many of the systems are factory engineered i.e. electronics, brake hydraulics, etc. There are many little things on a full non-production racecar that end up needing attention or checking that never do on a street based car. Also, you typically have a large network of parts availability and usually people can help you in a jamb at the track vs. a full non-production racecar.
My preference is a dedicated trackday/race car based on an OEM-production platform. Build it to a specific rule set/class and have a truck/trailer.
If you're just going to run a few HPDEs a year then a street car is all you need... upgrade pads and fluid and go. Have AAA in your back pocket for a tow home if you have a mechanical and trackday insurance for the bigger whoopsies.
Always cheaper to buy someone else's race car who has done most of the hard work for you....
In my experience once someone decides to sell the maintenance isn't upkept the best and they're always hiding something. Either way you're spending money. Kind of like with houses.
This thread seems to have gone pretty off topic, but in terms of objective performance, I imagine a C6 GS with a Trofeo R class tire (e.g., the OE tire on the Z28) would not be very far behind the Camaro on a road course. So not much building, if any, would be required.
This thread seems to have gone pretty off topic, but in terms of objective performance, I imagine a C6 GS with a Trofeo R class tire (e.g., the OE tire on the Z28) would not be very far behind the Camaro on a road course. So not much building, if any, would be required.
Yes this was way off based on my original question. I appreciate everyone’s input but I think you have summed it up very simply. Thank you.
01-21-2019, 03:12 PM
Build it or buy it
