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Not again... What tire for street/track c5 Zo6

 
Old 02-10-2019, 08:59 PM
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carcrazysammy
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Default Not again... What tire for street/track c5 Zo6


Happy Sunday afternoon folks,

I have a 2004 Zo6 and have been running a square stance 315-30-18 Toyo R888R last season. I managed to get 5 track days and 300 street miles on them.

The car has another set of wheels that needs tires. Just about every Friday and Saturday night I like to take Mines Rd. that goes from Livermore to San Jose CA, about a 120 mile loop from the house. Very tight, fairly slow speed but alot of fun.The car has an aggressive track alingment so longevity will be compromised by regular street driving. Thereore something harder, a 200+ treadwear is preferred but I am not sure what to get. Going down in width is OK.

So to recap, something 200+ tread ware, 295-315 sizes OK. Would like to spend less than $320 a tire.

Thanks!! Sammy
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:51 AM
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Has anyone tried Pirelli PZero for this kind of thing?
They have a 295/30ZR18 for $280. 220 treadwear.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:00 PM
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I know my Optima buddies like whatever the BFG spec tire is for them. It's a 200 treadware tire. I'd run a 295 square on the OEM 10.5s. The 315 is a bit stuffed and not much extra actual contact patch.

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Old 02-11-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
I know my Optima buddies like whatever the BFG spec tire is for them. It's a 200 treadware tire. I'd run a 295 square on the OEM 10.5s. The 315 is a bit stuffed and nut much extra actual contact patch.
I agree with you entirely. I run the Michelin PSS 295/30/18 on 18x11's square. The Michelin PSS 295's are 11.1" of contact patch. When I see guys running 315's on 10.5's....I feel like I'd like to see a chalk mark of the actual contact patch they're getting out of them, not to mention giving the shoulder more leverage to roll over because it's bulged. Granted there are narrow 315's out there but...idk.

Last edited by K.I.T.T.; 02-11-2019 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:41 PM
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If you don't mind stepping down a little more in size, the 275/35 18 Federal Rs-rr (they run a tad wide) is a pretty sticky 200tw tire that can be had for $125-$150 each shipped via multiple places. It's not going to have the raw grip of a 315 but should be plenty for canyon runs and hpde, and for ~$500 a set you can burn through them twice as fast and still come out ahead...
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
I agree with you entirely. I run the Michelin PSS 295/30/18 on 18x11's square. The Michelin PSS 295's are 11.1" of contact patch. When I see guys running 315's on 10.5's....I feel like I'd like to see a chalk mark of the actual contact patch they're getting out of them, not to mention giving the shoulder more leverage to roll over because it's bulged. Granted there are narrow 315's out there but...idk.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:34 AM
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Regarding the Federals....you can go a little wider with a 285 series tire and a 140 tread wear.....don't let the tread wear numbers sway you much. There is no DOT rules or rhyme or reason for the tread wear number. It is strictly marketing and what the tire company wants to stamp on the tire. A 200 tread wear on either the BFG Rival S or the Kumho ACR is a joke....they are pretty much full on R-compound rubber.

And at $150.00 each, who cares if the tire is softer and wears quicker.....a softer compound would be preferable on the street since the street surface may not always be clean and grippy.

https://simpletire.com/federal-p285-...-95hn8af-tires

For me, 315's on a 10.5" wide rim on the front feel like crap......295's or smaller have a much crisper turn in. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:46 AM
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I've been running the Federal RS-R (not the RS-RR) for years and think it's a pretty good tire for getting relatively inexpensive track time. Go for a 285/30/18 square set up.

From ebay they'll cost you about $500 a set.

They don't like any heat and will get progressively slower with every lap you do.

Last edited by kdm123; 02-12-2019 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
I agree with you entirely. I run the Michelin PSS 295/30/18 on 18x11's square. The Michelin PSS 295's are 11.1" of contact patch. When I see guys running 315's on 10.5's....I feel like I'd like to see a chalk mark of the actual contact patch they're getting out of them, not to mention giving the shoulder more leverage to roll over because it's bulged. Granted there are narrow 315's out there but...idk.
Richyrich recommended the 315 and it did very well in my limited experience. The tire didn't roll over at all and used 100% of the tread width. It does look budged on the wheel though. What kind of longevity are you getting with your MPSS setup?
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ticejon View Post
If you don't mind stepping down a little more in size, the 275/35 18 Federal Rs-rr (they run a tad wide) is a pretty sticky 200tw tire that can be had for $125-$150 each shipped via multiple places. It's not going to have the raw grip of a 315 but should be plenty for canyon runs and hpde, and for ~$500 a set you can burn through them twice as fast and still come out ahead...

Damn, that is cheap! Might be worth a try.

Thanks everyone, this is why I asked!!
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:36 AM
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285/35/18 Hankook rs4 gets my vote. They run a tad wide also. They are about .5 sec per lap slower then Toyo R888R’s from my experience at njmp thunderbolt. They held up great and didn’t get greasy

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Old 02-12-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by carcrazysammy View Post
Richyrich recommended the 315 and it did very well in my limited experience. The tire didn't roll over at all and used 100% of the tread width. It does look budged on the wheel though. What kind of longevity are you getting with your MPSS setup?
I've experimented with some other setups...I've had 305's on the 10.5's in the past. I really struggled to get all of the R888's on the pavement, but once I had pressure dialed in, I felt they performed well. I think the biggest improvement I can speak to, has more to do with using the sidewall, to the best of it's ability. The sidewall is essentially part of the cars suspension. In some cases, fast guys ran semi-stretched sidewalls, essentially stiffening them to almost lock them out. I think running the MPSS's the way I have, has given the car the most feel at the limit and the transition of adhesion to non-adhesion...there is no surprises. When a sidewall becomes loose, where the wheel can move around, while grip may remain, it adds a bit of unpredictability to the edge of adhesion, especially if the corner surface has some inconsistency to it.

It all has to do with the entire setup of the car, the suspension, the spring rates, swaybar, etc. It also has to do with the driver, his smoothness, or lack thereof. I can see why some people can work with it, and maybe even be faster with it, vs how they were in their prior setup. Sometimes though, like how some guys in golf will start to just aim left at the trees, to compensate for their inherent out-in swing/slice; it's masking a problem yet allows them to have better results than before. Some guys work with it and make it work, vs some guys will start with fixing the swing, then start to work the ball. The guys who find what works for them, will swear by it as doctrine.

I tend to feel that tire engineers know best and know how their tire should work, so I start with that...that's just my personal approach, to each his own.

In terms of wear, I've had great results with the MPSS's, as well as in varying conditions. MPSS's surprised me in the wet with how much grip they have and how predictable they remain (again, overall car setup really plays into this...tires won't fix a bad setup). Hard to justify the cost of Michelins though, as a primarily HPDE use tire. Even talkin in tire wear terms, you'll see guys rip through tires and some guys get a ton of mileage...comes down to smoothness and eyes ahead of the car, good balance, and the mindset of the guy driving, etc. Cost per track mile really varies between enthusiasts, despite driving the same/similar car.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
..... MPSS's surprised me in the wet with how much grip they have and how predictable they remain (again, overall car setup really plays into this...tires won't fix a bad setup).
+1 on this. Really good in the wet. However I have found the MPSS to brake away rather abruptly when running very stretched on the rim.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
I've experimented with some other setups...I've had 305's on the 10.5's in the past. I really struggled to get all of the R888's on the pavement, but once I had pressure dialed in, I felt they performed well. I think the biggest improvement I can speak to, has more to do with using the sidewall, to the best of it's ability. The sidewall is essentially part of the cars suspension. In some cases, fast guys ran semi-stretched sidewalls, essentially stiffening them to almost lock them out. I think running the MPSS's the way I have, has given the car the most feel at the limit and the transition of adhesion to non-adhesion...there is no surprises. When a sidewall becomes loose, where the wheel can move around, while grip may remain, it adds a bit of unpredictability to the edge of adhesion, especially if the corner surface has some inconsistency to it.

It all has to do with the entire setup of the car, the suspension, the spring rates, swaybar, etc. It also has to do with the driver, his smoothness, or lack thereof. I can see why some people can work with it, and maybe even be faster with it, vs how they were in their prior setup. Sometimes though, like how some guys in golf will start to just aim left at the trees, to compensate for their inherent out-in swing/slice; it's masking a problem yet allows them to have better results than before. Some guys work with it and make it work, vs some guys will start with fixing the swing, then start to work the ball. The guys who find what works for them, will swear by it as doctrine.

I tend to feel that tire engineers know best and know how their tire should work, so I start with that...that's just my personal approach, to each his own.

In terms of wear, I've had great results with the MPSS's, as well as in varying conditions. MPSS's surprised me in the wet with how much grip they have and how predictable they remain (again, overall car setup really plays into this...tires won't fix a bad setup). Hard to justify the cost of Michelins though, as a primarily HPDE use tire. Even talkin in tire wear terms, you'll see guys rip through tires and some guys get a ton of mileage...comes down to smoothness and eyes ahead of the car, good balance, and the mindset of the guy driving, etc. Cost per track mile really varies between enthusiasts, despite driving the same/similar car.
Do you think the Federal tire mentioned above is worth trying? The reviews are not too bad and less than half the cost of the MPSS. Keep in mind these tires probably won't see the track. I plan on bringing them if I have an issue with the dedicated set of track tires. Canyon carving will be the primary use.

My C7 Zo6 has MPSS and my last set lasted 10,000 miles with 5 track days which is great but the C5 has an agressive track alignment so I am afraid that will burn out the inside in a few thousand miles. That is why I am leaning toward the Federal. If they suck I am not out too much and I can burn them up at Sonoma Wednesday drift night LOL. Something I always wanted to try.
Seriously, thanks for taking the time to wright that up. Great information.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:09 AM
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MPSS and the cups are different animals. I have MPSS on my Stingray and they last 10-15K miles with a very aggressive track alignment.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:02 PM
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^ This is what I have found as well. I run a very aggressive alignment on the street, and I repeatedly put my car on the lift just waiting to see destruction in motion and strangely...I don't...lol. I ran the square setup and same offset front and rear, specifically to spread out that wear and it has really paid off for me, personally. MPSS is a really impressive tire in my opinion, but you pay for it vs some other stuff, for sure.

To CrazySam...I mean, I can't speak to those Federals and frankly, tire reviews are probably the least reliable reviews on the internet. People all drive different, brake different...some have **** setups, some dont...some don't even run the proper pressures, etc..and negative reviewers speak louder than positive so....I think you just have to run them and see what you come up with. I tend to find that with tires, unless you put a LOT of seat time in, on a specific tire, or you run a tire back to back, it's hard to discern certain differences. In the end, the data at the track will tell the story, but so will longevity, etc.

You really can't know if you don't try them, and like you said...half price and bake them at drift night...hell, I'd be rootin for them to suck...lol.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:22 PM
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Today I ran 2 sessions with 8 day 315 NT01 and 2 sessions with 4 day 275 RS-RRs... 1sec faster with the Federals. NT01s are done though.

Love the Feds, have them as backup street tires. They can get a little slower over the session, but always predictable.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:51 PM
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Check out the Nankang NS-2R.....They have them in 285/35/18 and they are more like 295 width tire..

Very close tire to the federals...about the same price..
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:42 PM
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Hmm, never heard of the Nankangs. That size will not fit a lowered C5 though, with the aspect ratio being too tall.

I don't really see that need for anyone to run anything but cheap-assed Federals if they are not yet to the point of their driving ability were they are chasing a 1/2 second of lap time. Why spend $1200 or whatever on a tire that might be 1 or 2 seconds faster when there are more seconds than that in your own driving ability. Better to spend less to get more seat time and improve your lap times that way.

The alternative to buying Federals is to buy scrubs. Personally I don't like buying a tire that someone else has decided to get rid off, but I understand that other people seem to have had good luck with scrubs.

The Porsche guys like a certain Ventus tire (don't remember the model), but it's hard to come buy and I think the biggest size in 18s is a 275.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:54 PM
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They are supposed to be almost the same as the federals. Why will they not fit a lowerd c5?
i have no problems driving with stock rear c5 z06 wheels in the front with 295 tires. Also lowerd with cut bushings.
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