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Would Like Help - Going To Track For First Time

 
Old 03-07-2019, 08:03 PM
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Midwest C6
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Default Would Like Help - Going To Track For First Time

Hello,

I am located in Minnesota.

I have a 2018 Z06, Non Z07, M7, Iron Brakes, Stage 1 Aero, PDR, 3500 Miles. Previous was a 2008 Coupe M7, street use for 10 years,

I attended Spring Mountain in June of 2018.

I have 2 local choices for track time, BIR or Track Night In America in Rosemount, MN. I have done lots of research, but admittedly this is an intimidating venture. I will do the required alignment, oil change, brake fluid change, added cooling ducts. I do have the following questions:

Brake Fluid - How much (ML or OZ) should I purchase for each change over?
Pads and Rotors - Since I am a novice can I just run what came on the car for initial event(s)?
Helmet - Good online source?

Any help is appreciated,

Dave
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:40 PM
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Unless your fluids, alignment and brakes are bad I wouldn't touch them. Make sure everything about the car is in good working order, including tires. There are check lists that organizations expect you to perform... I bet someone here can send you one or find one online.

Get an instructor. If possible check out their bio and see if you are comfortable with them instructing you. Better yet, perhaps you can talk with them prior to the event. Lots of places to buy helmets, but if you have something local it would be good to try them on. Might consider an open face since you'll be running with instructors which makes its easier to see and hear for both of you. There are several instructors here that can help further. Most important, set your expectations to Have Fun.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:59 PM
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First HPDE. Awesome. Fluids are very important. First, for the car, make sure you have them. Do make sure all fluids are fresh, I mean everything. With the brake fluid, if you plan on doing more of these, start using Castrol SRF and never look back. Belts, hoses, tires have to be in good shape. Make sure you clean out your car of everything that is not bolted down. I once had a loaded .45 slide from under my passenger seat when I was an instructor at turn one at Watkins Glen. I was not happy.

Helmets: go to a shop that sells them and try on a display model and then wear it for 30 minutes, minimum. That's how long some track sessions are. Every head is different. Most are elongated. The cheaper helmets are round. Unless you have a head like Charlie Brown, the cheap ones will start to hurt after a few minutes. Tried that and am done with that. Personally, I have settled on the Bell open face, because it is less expensive and I have a wider eye port. As an, instructor I like to use the passenger door mirror to see who is hanging on our bumper. For the really fast guys with harnesses, I have a Hans.

Instructor: CRITICAL!!!! I'm prejudice, but I like the BMWCCA way of instructing. They have been doing these events since the 1980s. All of their instructors have helmet communicators and provide instant feedback. Most instructors have experienced credentials and can give you a great deal of help. There is also classroom time so you can learn about the physics of vehicle dynamics Yea, you could probably pick it up yourself, but it will take longer and making mistakes on the track could result in disaster, not only for you, but whoever is trying to occupy the same spot on the track as you.

Read: books are a good way to educate yourself. You don't have to purchase a lot of them because the principles are all the same. In a classic 90 degree turn at the end of a straightaway leading onto another straightaway, you will encounter four (4) positions your car will venture through. 1: braking, 2: turn-in, 3: apex and 4: track-out.

Remember, speed is a byproduct. Like learning how to play a musical instrument. Accuracy first, then speed.

If I could give you two (2) things to really concentrate on mastering is 1: looking far ahead. The FBI TEVOC school calls it High Visual Horizon. And 2: to be smooth. I once went to a NASCAR race at Atlanta Motor Speedway and in the front of the pack was Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. Their line around the course was accentuated by the highly banked turns. It appeared like these guys were on railroad tracks their line around was so strait and so smooth. The guys in the middle of pack were not so consistent and the guys in the back of the pack were all over the place.

Bring fluids and snacks. Shade, like a small canopy. All sorts of weather gear. Folding lawn chair. You would be surprised at the amount of stuff you can fit in a Vette.

Good luck and have fun.

Spaggs
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:15 AM
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It takes about a liter of brake fluid to do a flush. 3500 mile Z06 pads are OK but pay attention. If you do well you may push them. Definitely do the fluid though pedal to the floor is no good.

i like the look far ahead comment. That is much harder to do than it sounds. I still have to remind myself pretty much every lap.
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:05 AM
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Midwest C6
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Originally Posted by Spaggs View Post
First HPDE. Awesome. Fluids are very important. First, for the car, make sure you have them. Do make sure all fluids are fresh, I mean everything. With the brake fluid, if you plan on doing more of these, start using Castrol SRF and never look back. Belts, hoses, tires have to be in good shape. Make sure you clean out your car of everything that is not bolted down. I once had a loaded .45 slide from under my passenger seat when I was an instructor at turn one at Watkins Glen. I was not happy.

Helmets: go to a shop that sells them and try on a display model and then wear it for 30 minutes, minimum. That's how long some track sessions are. Every head is different. Most are elongated. The cheaper helmets are round. Unless you have a head like Charlie Brown, the cheap ones will start to hurt after a few minutes. Tried that and am done with that. Personally, I have settled on the Bell open face, because it is less expensive and I have a wider eye port. As an, instructor I like to use the passenger door mirror to see who is hanging on our bumper. For the really fast guys with harnesses, I have a Hans.

Instructor: CRITICAL!!!! I'm prejudice, but I like the BMWCCA way of instructing. They have been doing these events since the 1980s. All of their instructors have helmet communicators and provide instant feedback. Most instructors have experienced credentials and can give you a great deal of help. There is also classroom time so you can learn about the physics of vehicle dynamics Yea, you could probably pick it up yourself, but it will take longer and making mistakes on the track could result in disaster, not only for you, but whoever is trying to occupy the same spot on the track as you.

Read: books are a good way to educate yourself. You don't have to purchase a lot of them because the principles are all the same. In a classic 90 degree turn at the end of a straightaway leading onto another straightaway, you will encounter four (4) positions your car will venture through. 1: braking, 2: turn-in, 3: apex and 4: track-out.

Remember, speed is a byproduct. Like learning how to play a musical instrument. Accuracy first, then speed.

If I could give you two (2) things to really concentrate on mastering is 1: looking far ahead. The FBI TEVOC school calls it High Visual Horizon. And 2: to be smooth. I once went to a NASCAR race at Atlanta Motor Speedway and in the front of the pack was Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. Their line around the course was accentuated by the highly banked turns. It appeared like these guys were on railroad tracks their line around was so strait and so smooth. The guys in the middle of pack were not so consistent and the guys in the back of the pack were all over the place.

Bring fluids and snacks. Shade, like a small canopy. All sorts of weather gear. Folding lawn chair. You would be surprised at the amount of stuff you can fit in a Vette.

Good luck and have fun.

Spaggs
I appreciate the feedback. Not sure I will have much of a choice as far as instructors, rather whatever BIR has at their event, but I plan on using nonetheless.

Dave
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by KNSBrakes View Post
It takes about a liter of brake fluid to do a flush. 3500 mile Z06 pads are OK but pay attention. If you do well you may push them. Definitely do the fluid though pedal to the floor is no good.

i like the look far ahead comment. That is much harder to do than it sounds. I still have to remind myself pretty much every lap.
Thanks for the info on brake fluid volume. I plan on using Motul RBF 660 unless that is a bad choice.

Dave
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by edge04 View Post
Unless your fluids, alignment and brakes are bad I wouldn't touch them. Make sure everything about the car is in good working order, including tires. There are check lists that organizations expect you to perform... I bet someone here can send you one or find one online.

Get an instructor. If possible check out their bio and see if you are comfortable with them instructing you. Better yet, perhaps you can talk with them prior to the event. Lots of places to buy helmets, but if you have something local it would be good to try them on. Might consider an open face since you'll be running with instructors which makes its easier to see and hear for both of you. There are several instructors here that can help further. Most important, set your expectations to Have Fun.
My expectations are in line with your suggestion to have fun. I have always enjoyed a spirited drive, but hard to do on the street! Spring Mountain was fun, and gave me the itch to do more. However, with my location in Minnesota, my options are limited. Not saying BIR isn’t a great option, it’s just the only option short of a 6+ hour drive.

Dave
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:47 AM
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I have one of these.. and keep it in my "racing box" that has all the stuff that goes with me to the track. About 50% of the time, and instructor has his own, but if not, I have this for us to use.

https://www.windingroad.com/articles...-com-intercom/

These days I drive in the advanced groups and don't have an instructor much (at least at my "home" track" - new track i'll gladly take one; even WANT one)... But it's great for when I bring passengers along while at home track.

Last edited by malexand123; 03-08-2019 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:41 AM
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I am new to HPDEs myself. I am doing my second event next week. Here is what I did and bought and it worked for me so far:

- Changed the alignment to DSC spec Street/track. It ensure even tire wear.
- Replaced engine oil to 0W-40 dexos2 ESP. This oil is good for street and track, and It doesn't need to be replaced until the monitor says so.
- Replaced brake fluid with Castrol SRF. It has high wet boiling point, so it doesn't need to be flushed after each track. Some folks say it is good for a year
- Replaced my brake pads with Carbotech XP12 and XP10 for track use only. Stock pads are good, but they wear out fast
- Conquer full-face helmet from Amazon. Surprisingly comfortable and excellent quality for the price. Stay away form open-face helmets
- Driving gloves. Plenty to choose from
- After my first event, I bought an Simpson HANS Hypred for 3-points seat belt. Something to think about for safety
- Flush and replace the differential fluid after the first event
- If you can, left the car in the garage do visual inspection all around
- Watch plenty of videos of hot-laps for your track
- There are plenty for educational material online and YouTube
- I bought VIR Virtual Track Walk from SpeedSecret and I like it, fyi

Drive at your comfortable pace, and try to enjoy the experience.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Midwest C6 View Post
I appreciate the feedback. Not sure I will have much of a choice as far as instructors, rather whatever BIR has at their event, but I plan on using nonetheless.

Dave
Going to a HPDE as a first timer without an instructor is about the BIGGEST mistake I see people make in this sport, all the time.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Midwest C6 View Post
Thanks for the info on brake fluid volume. I plan on using Motul RBF 660 unless that is a bad choice.

Dave
This is a very good brake fluid. Buy three bottles of it for a complete flush.

Find the very best local alignment shop and get the alignment set to the DSC ‘Street/Track’ specs. It is vital that the rear caster is set correctly. Do not trust your dealership to perform an adequate alignment.

The Z06 is a very fast track car, and iirc BIR has a very long straight, hence you’ll potentially be shedding a great deal of speed at the end of the straight. Therefore I would think about a set of upgraded brake pads. They are simple to replace on the C7.

Have fun!
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:39 PM
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Goat head,

When you replaced brake pads, did you do anything to the rotors? Turn them, replace them?

Dave

Last edited by Midwest C6; 03-08-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
This is a very good brake fluid. Buy three bottles of it for a complete flush.

Find the very best local alignment shop and get the alignment set to the DSC ‘Street/Track’ specs. It is vital that the rear caster is set correctly. Do not trust your dealership to perform an adequate alignment.

The Z06 is a very fast track car, and iirc BIR has a very long straight, hence you’ll potentially be shedding a great deal of speed at the end of the straight. Therefore I would think about a set of upgraded brake pads. They are simple to replace on the C7.

Have fun!
If I replace pads, should I do anything with the rotors. I am probably overthinking this, but I read about incompatibility with different pad materials embedded in the rotor is not ok?

Also, you are saying 3 bottles of 500 ml each, or 1.5 liters?



Dave
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Midwest C6 View Post
Goat head,

When you replaced brake pads, did you do anything to the rotors? Turn them, replace them?

Dave
I am using the OEM iron brake rotors with Carboteck brake pads. I switch between a street set and a track set. The brake pads compound is compatible with each other, so I don't have to barnish the rotors everytime I switch.

The OEM brake pads will do a good job, and they are good enough for Green level. They will wear out quickly, so you know.

Any new brake pads will work fine with the OEM rotors. You need to barnish them per instruction.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaggs View Post
First HPDE. Awesome. Fluids are very important. First, for the car, make sure you have them. Do make sure all fluids are fresh, I mean everything. With the brake fluid, if you plan on doing more of these, start using Castrol SRF and never look back. Belts, hoses, tires have to be in good shape. Make sure you clean out your car of everything that is not bolted down. I once had a loaded .45 slide from under my passenger seat when I was an instructor at turn one at Watkins Glen. I was not happy.

Helmets: go to a shop that sells them and try on a display model and then wear it for 30 minutes, minimum. That's how long some track sessions are. Every head is different. Most are elongated. The cheaper helmets are round. Unless you have a head like Charlie Brown, the cheap ones will start to hurt after a few minutes. Tried that and am done with that. Personally, I have settled on the Bell open face, because it is less expensive and I have a wider eye port. As an, instructor I like to use the passenger door mirror to see who is hanging on our bumper. For the really fast guys with harnesses, I have a Hans.

Instructor: CRITICAL!!!! I'm prejudice, but I like the BMWCCA way of instructing. They have been doing these events since the 1980s. All of their instructors have helmet communicators and provide instant feedback. Most instructors have experienced credentials and can give you a great deal of help. There is also classroom time so you can learn about the physics of vehicle dynamics Yea, you could probably pick it up yourself, but it will take longer and making mistakes on the track could result in disaster, not only for you, but whoever is trying to occupy the same spot on the track as you.

Read: books are a good way to educate yourself. You don't have to purchase a lot of them because the principles are all the same. In a classic 90 degree turn at the end of a straightaway leading onto another straightaway, you will encounter four (4) positions your car will venture through. 1: braking, 2: turn-in, 3: apex and 4: track-out.

Remember, speed is a byproduct. Like learning how to play a musical instrument. Accuracy first, then speed.

If I could give you two (2) things to really concentrate on mastering is 1: looking far ahead. The FBI TEVOC school calls it High Visual Horizon. And 2: to be smooth. I once went to a NASCAR race at Atlanta Motor Speedway and in the front of the pack was Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. Their line around the course was accentuated by the highly banked turns. It appeared like these guys were on railroad tracks their line around was so strait and so smooth. The guys in the middle of pack were not so consistent and the guys in the back of the pack were all over the place.

Bring fluids and snacks. Shade, like a small canopy. All sorts of weather gear. Folding lawn chair. You would be surprised at the amount of stuff you can fit in a Vette.

Good luck and have fun.

Spaggs
I agree although I don't use Castrol as I like something else better. Instructor is important and you won't get that at a Track Night event. You will get a couple laps of somebody leading a bunch of novices around in a lead follow manner and then you are let out on your own hoping to remember where the lead guy put his car.

Here is a good event at BIR that will put an instructor in the car with you.
https://www.motorsportreg.com/events...bmw-cca-645427

This is a BMW Club Event.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 03-08-2019 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
I agree although I don't use Castrol as I like something else better. Instructor is important and you won't get that at a Track Night event. You will get a couple laps of somebody leading a bunch of novices around in a lead follow manner and then you are let out on your own hoping to remember where the lead guy put his car.

Here is a good event at BIR that will put an instructor in the car with you.
https://www.motorsportreg.com/events...bmw-cca-645427

This is a BMW Club Event.

Bill
This says only open to BMW Club members, will have to see what that membership requires?

Dave
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Midwest C6 View Post
If I replace pads, should I do anything with the rotors. I am probably overthinking this, but I read about incompatibility with different pad materials embedded in the rotor is not ok?

Also, you are saying 3 bottles of 500 ml each, or 1.5 liters?



Dave
3 bottles of the 500 ml size ensures a complete flush with extra left over just in case it’s needed.

Carbotech make a whole range of pads that will hold up better on a road course than the OEM pads. If you choose something like the XP10 for the fronts and the XP8 for the rears you’ll have greater heat rejection qualities; less fade and they’ll still be rotor friendly. I’d check with the following for more advice:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rotor-zo6.html

BMW CCA and Porsche PCA annual memberships are cheap and you can probably join as an associate member. Then when you go on track you’ll always have an instructor until you’re ready to solo. As Bill mentioned, I would not choose an open track event as my first, (or 10th) time on a road course. There will be a ton of peeps there who have no idea what they’re doing. Don’t forget track insurance as your street car insurance will not in all likelihood pay for any damage incurred on a road course. I use ‘Open Track’ exclusively.

Bish
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:17 PM
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What's cool about the BMWCCA events is that they do not discriminate as to what kind of car you drive. I've instructed Cadillacs, a Ford F-150, multiple Porches, a Mercedes race car, a Datsun 240Z race car and a Dodge Charger, just to name a few. Also, they have a non-member fee that is usually $50.00 more than the member fee. It's the same price as a BMWCCA membership, so it's a way to encourage membership.

Some notable pro racers have gotten their start with BMWCCA because of the known quality of their instructors and their strict regulations to keep the idiot drivers to a minimum.

Have fun.

Spaggs
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by midwest c6 View Post
this says only open to bmw club members, will have to see what that membership requires?

Dave
$50.
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